CONTENTS
Standing Committee on The Economy
Trade and Export
Development Vote 90
Innovation Saskatchewan
Vote 84
Immigration and Career
Training Vote 89
TWENTY-NINTH
LEGISLATURE
of
the
Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan
THE
ECONOMY
Hansard Verbatim Report
No.
31 — Tuesday, April 16, 2024
The
Chair: — All right, folks. Welcome to the
Standing Committee on the Economy. I’m Colleen Young and I’ll be chairing the
meeting this afternoon. We have, sitting in for Jennifer Bowes, Noor Burki. We
have member Jared Clarke sitting in for Aleana Young, and we have Daryl
Harrison sitting in for Delbert Kirsch. We also have members Ken Francis, Greg
Ottenbreit, and Doug Steele joining us here.
Today the committee will be considering
the estimates for the Ministry of Trade and Export Development, Innovation
Saskatchewan, and the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training. We will take
a one-hour recess at 5:30.
General Revenue Fund
Trade and Export Development
Vote 90
Subvote
(TE01)
The
Chair: — And we will first consider the
estimates for the Ministry of Trade and Export Development. And we will begin
with consideration of vote 90, Trade and Export Development, central management
and services, subvote (TE01).
Minister Harrison is here with his
officials. And I ask officials, the first time you speak, to say your name and
your title at the mike, and Hansard will turn the mikes on for you. So, Minister,
you can begin by introducing your officials, and then your opening remarks.
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison:
— Great. Well thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to committee
members for being here this afternoon. Today we have a number of officials from
Trade and Export Development that are joining us: to my right, Jodi Banks,
deputy minister; Tyler Lynch, assistant deputy minister, economic development,
behind; Kevin France, assistant deputy minister, international engagement, to
my left; Lindsay Freistadt, assistant deputy minister of strategic policy and
competitiveness, behind; Jay Teneycke, executive director of marketing and
communications; Matt Smith, CEO [chief executive officer] of the Saskatchewan
Indigenous Investment Finance Corporation, behind; and Rob Swallow, our
executive director of corporate services, behind as well.
The
ministry and I are very proud of what Trade and Export Development has been
able to accomplish not just over the last year but over the last number of years.
We’ve seen record private investment into our province and international
exports to over 160 countries. And that doesn’t just happen by accident. It
happens because of the tireless efforts we’ve put into ensuring the world knows
that Saskatchewan is the best place to do business.
We’re
committed to strengthening our international relations and making it easy to do
business here at home. We’ve worked hard to create the competitive business
environment we’re experiencing today, one where investors can utilize our suite
of incentives and tax credits across all sectors, one that continues to grow
the economy, create jobs, and provide opportunities for all those who call this
province home.
This year we worked hard to grow our
presence in international markets and make meaningful connections with our
partners. We’ve also focused on supporting those already doing business here in
Saskatchewan because after all, we know the majority of private capital
investment in the province is reinvestment by companies who have already made
investments here.
These relationships help us reinforce
our reputation as the stable and reliable supplier the world needs to ensure
energy and food security. Building on that success is our priority as a
ministry. I’ve also committed to continue standing up for Saskatchewan and
growing our province’s profile on the world stage both nationally and
internationally. We’ll continue to stand up for our province and push back
against policies and initiatives that aren’t in the best interests for our
economy or Saskatchewan.
As a province that exports nearly 70 per
cent of what we produce, we will continue to ensure Saskatchewan’s voice is
heard to promote increased market access and the reduction of trade barriers.
Because of our reliance on exports, it’s vital that we work with our partners
here at home, throughout Canada, and across the globe. We are also committed to
using the Canadian Free Trade Agreement to strengthen internal trade and reduce
regulatory barriers here within the country. This is crucial to ensuring goods
and services can flow efficiently and effectively throughout Canada and beyond.
Alongside our commitment to create a
business-friendly environment, Trade and Export Development supports the work
of Saskatchewan’s red tape reduction cabinet committee. This committee just
celebrated its 10th-year anniversary and it’s been a great decade. Through the
hard work of the committee in identifying and addressing excessive,
unnecessary, and duplicate requirements, red tape reduction has saved
Saskatchewan businesses over $682 million since 2014.
The committee has reviewed 249
business-related regulations and over 21,000 compliance requirements. They also
launched the Help Cut Red Tape web page to allow businesses and the general
public to share their priority areas that inform the province’s regulatory
modernization.
All of this and more is why we are
seeing substantial economic growth in Saskatchewan. This year’s budget is
$40.589 million, similar to our 2023‑24 budget. Our ministry’s goals
remain the same: to strengthen the provincial economy for the benefit of
Saskatchewan people. We’re continuing to focus on international engagement and
attracting investment into the province.
Year after year we are seeing more
connections made, more partnerships formed, more markets reached, and more
positive outcomes for the people of Saskatchewan. We’re staying the course
because it’s working and the numbers prove it. The ministry’s work has helped
support Saskatchewan businesses to export $49.3 billion in product in
2023, the second-highest year for international exports in provincial history.
Of that, we saw a fourth consecutive year of record agri-food exports valued at
$20.2 billion. This means we’ve already surpassed our 2030 growth plan target
of $20 billion in agri-food exports years ahead of schedule.
This milestone not only reflects the
dedication of Saskatchewan farmers and producers, but the global demand for the
high-quality, sustainably produced agricultural products they consistently
deliver. It reinforces that Saskatchewan has the food, fuel, fertilizer, and
critical minerals the world needs, and the demand for Saskatchewan products is
growing.
Saskatchewan’s real gross domestic
product, GDP, grew by a nation-leading 6 per cent from 2021‑22. The total
dollar value of the province’s 2022 GDP is $81.8 billion. The province’s
GDP is expected to grow by 1.4 per cent in 2024, ranking second in the nation.
It’s forecasted to grow by another 3.1 per cent in 2025, again ranking second
in the nation, and then is expected to lead the nation in growth in 2026 with
growth of 3.6 per cent.
Total capital investment in Saskatchewan
last year increased nearly 26 per cent to a total of $17.1 billion, and
that puts Saskatchewan second in the nation for growth and capital investment
in 2023. And it’s expected to go up more, by a remarkable 14.4 per cent to
$19.6 billion next year. This growth is expected to lead the nation in
2024.
What’s truly exciting is that we’re not
just seeing this growth within one sector; it’s in all sectors. More than ever
before, companies are deciding to invest in our province. For example, Nutrien
continues to invest in the province to accelerate potash production capability
to 18 million tonnes by 2025. Foran’s $368 million McIlvenna Bay
copper mine project is expected to produce an average of 34.5 million
pounds of copper and 58.6 million pounds of zinc annually. Plus it will be
the world’s first net zero copper mine. BHP approved a $6.5 billion investment
for their stage 2 of the Jansen potash project, making its planned total
investment in the project nearly $19 billion, the largest investment the
company has ever made into a project. This will double production capacity to
approximately 8.5 million tonnes per annum.
Karina Gistelinck, potash asset
president for BHP, said it best herself, and I quote:
Saskatchewan’s
world-class resource base, highly skilled talent, pipeline, and stable and
supportive regulatory and investment environment all gave BHP the confidence to
make the largest single investment in the company’s history right here in
Saskatchewan.
With this amount of faith from our
investors, it’s clear Saskatchewan is on the right track.
Just last summer Louis Dreyfus Company,
LDC, announced the expansion of its canola processing complex in Yorkton. Not
long after that announcement came another from LDC for a new pea protein
production facility. In total these projects will create 120 jobs and have
lasting benefits for the surrounding communities and the producers of our
province.
And then there’s Donald’s Fine Foods, a
new $60 million processing plant in Moose Jaw. This will be the largest
sow plant in Canada and has capacity for 225,000 sows, and it can employ as
many as 200 people when fully operational.
So we see these new facilities being
announced and built. Companies who have called Saskatchewan home for
generations are expanding as well because of the huge increase in demand.
Crestline Coach is expanding its facility in Saskatoon by an additional 30,000
square feet of manufacturing space. Pro Metal Industries, which is proudly
owned by Pasqua First Nation, is expanding its existing facility in Regina in
addition to their new facility which is set to open in 2024.
But it’s not just our province’s private
capital investment that’s growing. We continue to see record population
increases too. More people than ever before are choosing to call Saskatchewan
home. Just a few weeks ago we announced an increase of 30,000 people in 2023 —
Statistics Canada made that announcement — bringing our total population to an
all-time high of 1,225,493. So our population grows. Our economy grows. And
people have more incentive, more income to invest back into the businesses and
organizations in our communities.
We’re growing our province to provide a
better quality of life for everyone here, now and into the future. Whether on
the economic or population front, this growth is thanks to the hard-working
people and the businesses and entrepreneurs located right here in our province.
Through this hard work, we’re on track to meet and even exceed many of our
ambitious growth plan goals by 2030.
These include creating 100,000 new jobs,
increasing the value of our exports by 50 per cent, growing Saskatchewan’s
agri-food exports to $20 billion, expanding private capital investment in
Saskatchewan to $16 billion, increasing the number of international
markets to which we export more than $1 billion, and crushing 75 per cent
of the canola Saskatchewan produces. These are lofty goals but we’re meeting
them through our strong partnerships and attractive business climate.
To bolster our economy even further,
this year’s budget provides $500,000 through a minimum revenue guarantee to the
Regina Airport Authority to support a US [United Stated] direct flight. WestJet
and the Regina Airport Authority announced this new direct flight from Regina
to Minneapolis in November of 2023. This is in addition to Saskatoon Airport
Authority’s recent announcement of WestJet’s Saskatoon-to-Minneapolis flight
moving to a daily service beginning later this month.
These flights to Minneapolis represent
more than just an opportunity to fly to a US city. Minneapolis is a key hub,
and the direct link means Saskatchewan’s connection to our largest trading partner
and our neighbour gets even stronger. That gives us more connections to the US
for business, tourism, and families.
Another goal that Trade and Export
Development focuses on is Indigenous economic opportunities. In March, Trade
and Export Development’s Indigenous economic development branch hosted the
third annual Indigenous Business Gathering. More than 700 people from
Indigenous and non-Indigenous businesses, municipalities, Crown corporations,
government ministries gathered for this significant event, all of them with one
thing in common. They’re all looking to develop supply chain procurement and
partnership opportunities. The event featured over 85 trade show booths,
creating a space for organizations to form new business relationships.
Chief of Lac La Ronge Indian Band Tammy
Cook-Searson, who also serves as president of Kitsaki Management, provided the
keynote for the 2024 event and had this to say:
Events like the
Indigenous Business Gathering are crucial because they foster a unique platform
to connect, share knowledge, and build partnerships. Having the opportunity to
showcase both the opportunities to do business with and the vibrancy and
resiliency of Indigenous businesses contributes significantly to the success of
the wider economy and creates diverse and purpose-driven workplaces.
The province continues to support
positive relationships with Indigenous communities and helps advance economic
reconciliation in the province through the Saskatchewan Indigenous Investment
Finance Corporation, or SIIFC. And my understanding is the federal government
just announced a program largely modelled on SIIFC in the budget that they just
rolled out today.
The Indigenous Investment Finance
Corporation is proud to offer loan guarantees of at least $5 million to
eligible Indigenous groups who are interested in being equity owners in natural
resources, value-added agriculture, and related infrastructure projects
throughout the province. This is vital to growing, strengthening, diversifying
our economy, and improving the quality of life for the people of Saskatchewan.
That quality of life means ensuring
opportunities for good jobs and a strong workforce, which is something the
Ministry of Immigration and Career Training’s recently announced Building
the Workforce for a Growing Economy: The Saskatchewan Labour Market Strategy
will help with. And of course Trade and Export and Immigration and Career
Training work closely on these items.
[15:45]
All this goes hand in hand with Trade
and Export Development’s new Securing the Next Decade of Growth:
Saskatchewan’s Investment Attraction Strategy. We’ve already seen a great
deal of success in attracting investment into the province, and with this new
strategy we’re excited to do even more and attract even more investment.
Our success over the last year comes
because we’ve fostered an environment with low tax and utility rates, expanding
focus on red tape reduction and regulatory modernization, client-focused service
for current and prospective investors, a skilled workforce, and a network of
nine international trade and investment offices. All of this is what makes up
the Saskatchewan advantage which puts us a step above the rest compared to
other jurisdictions. It’s part of our story.
All of this and more is highlighted in
the new strategy. Released last month, it’s our roadmap to increasing
investment in the province to the benefit of everyone who works and lives here.
And it’s part of our message to the world: Saskatchewan is an excellent place
to invest and to do business.
The new strategy is designed around
three main themes. The first theme is “build,” focused on creating
opportunities in new and emerging sectors that are driving the new economy.
These new opportunities include critical minerals — and we just had a very
exciting announcement two days ago in Saskatoon with the French republic; the
Trade minister of France and I made a very significant commitment and signed an
agreement — advanced manufacturing, and clean technologies amongst others.
The second theme is “growth.” We know
most private capital investment in the province is by reinvestment from
companies who are already in operation here. We want to capitalize on existing
strengths in Saskatchewan’s key sectors such as potash, uranium, agriculture,
energy, manufacturing, and forestry — the things we’ve been doing well for
decades.
Our final theme is “connect,” connecting
the world to Saskatchewan and Saskatchewan to the world. We want the world to
know what Saskatchewan has to offer. To do just that we’ve launched a new
website as a part of our effort, investsk.ca, which will serve as a gateway to
our province for international businesses and investors, providing an overview
of the major economic sectors and world-class investment opportunities in
Saskatchewan. Whether it’s trade missions abroad or welcoming delegations here
at home, international engagement is a major driver in growing our economy. And
we continue to grow our global reputation as a stable supplier of food, fuel,
fertilizer, and critical minerals.
Our international engagement is key.
Through our network of nine international offices we are introducing
Saskatchewan to new markets and potential partners and investors. We’re supporting
Saskatchewan businesses, recruiting students, and attracting talent for our
labour market. And we’ll continue on our path because our international
engagement is working. It’s thanks to this engagement that we continue to find
new markets, see record exports, and will achieve and surpass our growth plan
goal of attracting $16 billion in capital investment.
The new and expanded incentives within
the strategy will build on an already strong suite of existing programs in the
province, and it’s incentives like these that make us the attractive
jurisdiction for investment we are today. And we need to remember we are
competing for that investment against every other jurisdiction not just within
Canada but around the world.
The strategy makes choosing Saskatchewan
not just an easy decision but the right decision. Thanks to our cross-ministry
approach, we work collaboratively to ensure a cohesive strategy that benefits
all Saskatchewan people. But we know that just the strategy is enough to share
Saskatchewan’s great story. We are a province that is dependent on trade. One
in three jobs in Saskatchewan is tied directly to exports, so it’s imperative
that we remain aggressive on the global stage, actively seeking out new markets
and opportunities for Saskatchewan-based companies, working with
Saskatchewan-based companies and working with those who are looking to invest
with us.
We understand that international
engagement is a major driver to grow investment, and the value of our network
of nine international offices’ providers is becoming more important than ever.
The support our offices in Mexico, United Kingdom, Germany, United Arab
Emirates, India, Singapore, Vietnam, China, and Japan provide goes beyond
liaising with international organizations and governments, the crucial
connecting of Saskatchewan companies with new markets so that their products
can reach even further.
Black Fox Farm & Distillery is a
prime example of the power of these connections. Co-owner Barb Stefanyshyn-Cote
had this to say about the offices, and I quote:
When you’re looking
at an industry like ours, you’re looking for global markets. Right now we do
sell across Canada and to Alberta and Ontario. We needed to expand to reach to
make this a truly global business. It’s been beneficial for us to have the
Saskatchewan trade offices in different countries around the world. Having them
in China and Germany and also in the UK has been really, really beneficial.
This past year the ministry has led
missions to the United States, India, Germany, Mexico, United Kingdom, Poland,
Philippines, Singapore, and the United Arab Emirates. The Saskatchewan Mexico
office supported Canadian Western Agribition by increasing awareness of the
province’s capabilities in the sector in Chile, Columbia, and Mexico. As a
result, 18 Mexican cattle genetic buyers visited Saskatchewan and attended the
Canadian western exhibition in November 2023 with anticipated sales of
$1 million in the next 12 months.
Saskatchewan’s United Kingdom office,
alongside our government, advocated to include biomass in the Government of
Canada’s clean electricity investment tax credits. The success of these efforts
has enabled further progress on two biomass development projects in the
province by a UK [United Kingdom] company.
Germany saw 23 Saskatchewan companies
attend Agritechnica, Europe’s leading trade fair for agricultural machinery,
resulting in over 730 trade leads and over 170 deals with anticipated sales of
over $16 million.
In March, the United Arab Emirates
office supported a recruitment mission to Dubai, where 177 applicants were
interviewed over four days with an aim to fill 150 positions. And we are proud
to say that the target was exceeded and job offer letters were provided to 166
applicants.
Saskatchewan has worked incredibly hard
on its relationship with India and, because of our dedication, in 2023 the
Premier accepted the Canada-India Business Council Member of the Year Award on
behalf of the people of Saskatchewan. Growing trade volumes with India, and they
have been growing, will continue to illustrate the success of our presence in
the market, and continued outcomes will be realized.
Saskatchewan’s Singapore office
supported a labour recruitment mission in the Philippines, which led to 1,400
job interviews and over 39,000 job applications as well as over 1,000
anticipated nominations for permanent residency through the SINP [Saskatchewan
immigrant nominee program]. Negotiations to establish a bilateral framework
with the Department of Migrant Workers highlighted the importance at the
highest level of the Filipino-Saskatchewan relationship.
In Vietnam a memorandum of understanding
was signed between the University of Regina and the University of Da Nang.
Saskatchewan Polytech also signed a memorandum of co-operation with Tra Vinh
University in Vietnam. Both of these aim to share knowledge and help build our
future workforce.
In November 2023 Saskatchewan’s China
office supported an MOU [memorandum of understanding] between Pulse Canada and
the China-Canada commerce of foodstuffs, native produce, animal by-products.
This MOU provides an opportunity to strengthen ties between Canada and China’s
pea protein industries.
In October 2023 Saskatchewan’s Japan
office supported seven Saskatchewan companies at the Health Ingredients Japan
trade show in collaboration with Saskatchewan Trade and Export Partnership,
which resulted in sales of $550,000. Those are some of just the most recent.
Our international engagement took to new
heights this past December by attending and hosting Saskatchewan’s first-ever
pavilion at COP [Conference of the Parties], enforcing our stance and
commitment on sustainable economic development. Once there, Saskatchewan hosted
over 50 panel discussions and events in the pavilion, highlighting our
province’s expertise and success in sustainability.
And it is a story to be proud of. As a
global leader in many sectors, it was our opportunity to share our story in
clean energy and sustainable resource development. We spoke about how our
carbon capture, utilization, and storage; enhanced oil recovery; and
world-class uranium production are delivering the sustainable fuels that the
world needs. For example, Saskatchewan’s enhanced oil recovery projects have
sequestered more than 40 million tonnes of CO2
over the last 25 years. That’s enough carbon to make 4.5 million homes
energy neutral for one year.
We spoke about the progress we’re making
in nuclear power in our own backyard. As we continue to develop both small
modular reactor and microreactor projects, it only makes sense since we’re home
to the largest high-grade deposits of uranium in the world, all of which are
used extensively for nuclear power around the world.
When it came to critical minerals, we
shared our ability to supply the world with the resources they need ethically
and sustainably. Whether it’s potash, helium, uranium, rare earth elements,
copper, lithium, and more, we can be the global critical mineral hub the world
needs. And we are.
On the agriculture front, we had many
discussions around our expertise in sustainable farming solutions, including
the use of zero-till farming. Research commissioned by the Global Institute for
Food Security found Saskatchewan’s net carbon footprint for canola and wheat
was more than 60 per cent lower than competing jurisdictions.
But it wasn’t just our government
sharing the story, it was Saskatchewan businesses themselves. Approximately 60
Saskatchewan businesses, institutions, and organizations joined the delegation
to share their stories. Here’s just some of what these organizations had to
say:
Rhona DelFrari, chief sustainability
officer for Cenovus, said:
Participating in
the discussions at COP28 provides the opportunity for us to share advancements
we’ve achieved and also gather ideas from business leaders, governments, and
researchers from around the world to help further progress our decarbonization
efforts.
Chris Lane, CEO for Economic Development
Regina, said:
COP28 provides a
unique opportunity to exchange knowledge on climate-friendly production on
commodities and energy. As the home to an emerging energy and renewable sector,
Regina has a vital role to play in those discussions, and we look forward to
sharing our story with the world.
And Dr. Steven Webb, CEO for Global
Institute for Food Security in Saskatoon, said:
COP28 provides one
of the largest global platforms to discuss topics related to climate change,
energy, and agriculture. And I’m excited that this opportunity for Saskatchewan
highlights some research and advancements we’ve made to enhance productivity
and sustainable food security and to drive trade and exports.
But there’s more to our international
engagement than missions abroad. We’re also showcasing our story right in our
own backyard. In 2023‑24 we welcomed 70 incoming diplomatic and commercial
visits. Some to note include Emirates Nuclear Energy Corporation; the US
ambassador to Canada; High Commissioner of India was just here a couple of
weeks ago; the ambassador of Vietnam, who was just here last week I believe;
five Nordic ambassadors, including Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and
Denmark, who were also just . . . this was all very recent; and the
Rt. Hon. Dame Maria Miller as part of the United Kingdom prime minister’s trade
envoy to Canada.
Whether diplomatic or commercial delegations,
they all have one thing in common. They’re interested in what Saskatchewan has
to offer and interested in investing in our opportunities. And let me tell you,
the opportunities are endless. Recent world events, including the continued war
in Ukraine, the conflict in the Red Sea, the Gulf of Aden, and the attack on
Israel have all highlighted the global need for secure and stable and reliable
food and energy production.
More than ever Saskatchewan can provide
food and energy security safely, consistently, and sustainably. And it’s only
through sharing the province’s incredible story and the Saskatchewan advantage
that we will remain known as the best place to do business. We’re committed to
fostering a competitive business environment, offering a suite of incentives,
tax credits that make our province one of the best places in the world to do
business.
And this is what we call growth and
success for the people of the province. More exports, more investment means
more jobs for our people, a high standard of living, and economic growth for
the province. Through the Saskatchewan advantage we will create new
opportunities, grow existing sectors, and connect the world to our province.
This will allow us to continue building our economy and the bright future for
Saskatchewan people. And with that, Madam Chair, I am happy to take questions.
[16:00]
The Chair:
— All right. Thank you, Minister. I’ll note that Ms. Aleana Young has joined us
here, and I’ll open the floor to questions from members.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank
you, Minister, for those opening comments and to your officials for being
present here today and all of the work that goes into business as usual for you
every day but also in preparing for these meetings. I know it’s extensive and I
know there are many, many people behind you not here today.
Several
times in this past month there’s been discussions about the labour shortages
currently facing Saskatchewan. And I’m wondering if you can describe for me the
size of that labour shortage in the areas of the economy that are looking for
additional staff.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — All right, no, appreciate the
question. So I actually just looked at some of the team behind us. It looks
like we have one other individual who has joined us here, former senior public
servant. So I’m not sure if he’s going to provide some assistance but my father
has joined us as well. So he’s a city councillor with the city of Meadow Lake.
He’s here as part of the SUMA [Saskatchewan Urban Municipalities Association]
convention.
The
Chair: — Welcome.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I’m sure I’ll be getting advice
afterwards on what I should have done differently Monday.
So you know, I appreciate the question.
So with regard to labour shortages, you know, one of the things we’ve been
hearing consistently, and it’s been a theme through our stakeholder
organizations and our stakeholder outreach that we do very regularly, both
through Trade and Export Development and Immigration and Career Training. And I
think part of the answer to this question as well speaks to the very close
working relationship, very symbiotic working relationship between Trade and
Export Development and Immigration and Career Training. You know, we both had a
lot . . . ministries have both had significant input into both the
labour market strategy on the one hand and the investment attraction strategy
on the other, because they really do go very closely together and really were
designed all the way through to be complementary to each other.
So you know, the labour market shortage
though really being an issue that hasn’t been identified as likely the most
acute challenge that a number of sectors . . . it’s not every sector,
but really the most acute challenge that a number of sectors are facing going
forward and really probably the most significant potential impediment to the
growth trajectory that we are on in the province based on really historic
investment into a number of the different industries in the province.
So these are good challenges to have.
You know, I’d rather be dealing with a labour market shortage because of the
massive investment coming into the province than historically what had been
some of the challenges the province had faced. But nonetheless it’s a real
challenge and because of that we have worked, probably spent the last nearly
two years working with our partners in the space both on the investment
attraction side, but on the labour market side as well because they do go
together on what a really comprehensive labour market strategy will look like
to make sure that employers like BHP are going to have the workforce that they
need as they reach different milestones in a construction and into production
for these generationally large projects.
So you know, really what the labour
market strategy focuses on are three primary pillars, the first of which is
making sure that Saskatchewan residents have first and every opportunity to
take advantage of the economic opportunities that these investments and our
economy are creating. So that really means record investments into things like
apprenticeship training, for example. And you know, we’ll talk about that a bit
more in the Immigration and Career Training estimates.
But we’ve added, just this year I think
nearly 700 seats, or over the course of the last two years, nearly 700 seats
through our apprenticeship system that are really focused in trades that we are
going to see based on very close collaboration with employers’ shortages in
going to the future if we weren’t in a position to address them now. So you
know, really both timing wise and resource wise, we are seeking to be
responsible so we’ve put some very significant additional resources into the
apprenticeship system for example.
Post-secondary institutions and I would
say, you know, maybe just focusing on the two universities are very, very
highly attuned as well to making sure that programming is in place such that
those who are going to be graduating are going to be, at least having
opportunities to have training in degrees that are going to see increases in
demand within the province.
So both, you know, Dr. Stoicheff and Dr.
Keshen have both been just very, very good to work with and we’ve, you know,
really made a point. Obviously Dr. Rosia at Sask Poly has just played a very
close . . . in a very close relationship as well and we’ve been
around the . . . you know, whether it be labour or recruitment,
whether it be negotiation with other international institutions for a variety
of things, our post-secondaries have been integrally involved with our
international engagement efforts and very, very closely aligned with our
international offices in making sure that, you know, they have access to the
folks that they need to.
And you know, we have a number of quotes.
I’m maybe going to . . . I’ll table some of these later. I’m not
going to go through all of them, but literally we have 50 pages of quotes from
stakeholders, a big part of which are academic stakeholders, about the value
from our international engagement efforts.
So really kind of pillar 1 is around the
training, making sure Saskatchewan residents have every opportunity to take
advantage of the jobs that are being created. And I would say that’s, you know,
a significant part of the effort, if not the significant majority part of the
effort.
The other parts that are important
though to address the labour market shortage you would be seeing around now. I
think members around the table and members of the public would see billboards
that have gone up here in the last week or two around credential recognition.
And really we wanted it to be very straightforward. I wanted to literally say,
you have a credential that you have earned from outside of Saskatchewan, you
want that credential recognized, call us. And that’s basically what the focus
of the awareness campaign is about. So you know, that’ll be on buses. That’ll
be at bus stops. That will be on billboards. I’m sure online advertisements
have been running for a bit longer now in that regard.
And we’ve seen because of that a very,
very large spike in interest on our credential recognition office, which we set
up as a part of the labour market strategy. It’s the very first one in Canada.
We’re the only jurisdiction in the country that actually has a dedicated branch
and a dedicated office designed entirely to work with newcomers to have
credentials that were obtained from outside of Saskatchewan recognized in
Saskatchewan.
And that means working directly with our
regulators, which we are committed to doing. And we had put in place the legal
framework for that a couple of years ago with The Labour Mobility and Fair
Registration Practices Act. That created the legal framework for government
to work with regulators to make sure that we had the most streamlined system we
possibly could in place to have credentials recognized from outside of the
country. And I would say our regulators have been very good to work with on a
lot of this. I would say almost all of our regulators have been deeply
responsive, understanding that there is a challenge and working with our
credential recognition office to make sure that the framework exists for
credentials to be recognized as seamlessly and streamlined as possible.
So the difference though is that we will
directly work with proponents and provide really a path-finding service within
not just government but also within the regulatory world to have those
credentials recognized.
So you’ll see those advertisements
around the province. I strongly suspect you’re going to see this model emulated
around Canada. Most provinces in Canada now have directly copied our labour
mobility legislation, literally cut and pasted our labour market mobility
legislation, which is good because I think it’s a net positive for the country.
So that is around the credential recognition piece.
The third part of it is working with our
employers who are still, despite efforts on the training within Canada and also
on the credential upskilling or recognition piece through that part
. . . is around international recruitment.
And we have really pushed hard on an
expansion to our provincial nominee program and have built the program really
from being very, very small, you know, 17 years ago to now being really
responsible for nearly 80 per cent of our international in-migration, the most
significant component of international in-migration through a PNP [provincial
nominee program] probably anywhere in Canada. There’d be a couple that would be
close or within that general area. Most provinces rely more heavily on federal
immigration streams. But as a proportion of the overall number of newcomers,
we’re right at the very top of that through our SINP program.
So we want to make sure though that even
with that significant growth in the SINP program and the additional authorities
that we had sought, you know, really quite assertively with the federal
government and frankly have received most of, we would not hear the federal
government quite, I think, announce that they have given us everything we
wanted. But you know, we got most of the way there. There are still a few
things left that we proposed in our immigration accord that we want to see
patriated to our authority through our PNP, but we’ll keep working on that.
That was very successful. I mean we
recruited hundreds of folks through that mission. Important to remember, these
are really employer-driven as well. So we have companies who are saying we’re
going to hire a set number of welders or we’re looking to hire a set number of
mechanics or in that case we had airline pilots which they were successful in
recruiting for.
So building on that model, we supported
a mission to Manila and I think we had about 30‑plus employers on that
mission to Manila who were seeking to hire I think about 3 or 400 jobs. So we
were, you know, hopeful that we would be able to reach that number. As it
turned out, not only did we reach that number, there was just an overwhelming
degree, overwhelming degree of interest. And yeah we were, out of that, issued
I think nearly a thousand PR nominations, again directly hired by employers.
And kind of what happened in that case
where you would have a company — I won’t kind of single individual companies
out — but you know, they would be seeking to hire eight mechanics. And we had
one company that ended up coming back with like 22 or something. And it was,
you know, an area of acute shortage that they needed to have filled. There were
a couple examples on the welding front like that as well where you have really
international standards in a lot of these spaces and especially in the trades.
And, you know, we’re able to facilitate the recognition of those credentials
through . . . Our credential recognition office issue nominations in
the most streamlined way possible, literally everybody there. We’re turning
nominations around in hours on the ground and it really, as a model, worked
very, very good.
So we’re looking at options — might talk
about that maybe a bit in ICT [Immigration and Career Training] estimates — on
how to expand that model. TED [Trade and Export Development] obviously plays a
central role though in supporting those international efforts on the
recruitment front.
So three pillars: training our folks
here in Saskatchewan who are already here, credential recognition and upscaling
credentials for those who are here as well but had a credential from outside of
the province, and recruiting internationally.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you very much. I’ll return to
the original question. Can you describe for me the size of the labour shortage
in the areas of the economy that are looking for additional staff?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, I mean I think we addressed
that in both the opening remarks and through that somewhat in-depth reply. I
mean we’re having labour market shortages in virtually every sector of the
economy, more acute in some areas. Which changes over time as well. I mean
that’s one thing. It’s a pretty dynamic space with regard to labour market.
[16:15]
You know, you would have I think
Hospitality Saskatchewan that would say that they have had at different points,
probably less acute right now than it was a year and a half ago, and that
probably . . . That’s a reflection of the fact that some of the
tailored labour market programming and ICT programming we put in place was effective
in addressing some of the challenge they had in the service and hospitality
industry.
I would say that where we really are
having a challenge right now with some of our large employers is around that
trade space, and it’s where, you know, there’s a projection that we’re going to
have . . . And these aren’t just projections picked out of the air. I
mean this is really come to by working with employers like BHP, like Nutrien,
like Mosaic, like Cameco. They know what percentage of their workforce in particular
trades are going to be either retiring in the next number of years or what
they’re going to need as far as new employees to actually fill the jobs that
are being created because of investments and capital expansion. So that really
is an area where we focused on.
So that is why we made significant
increases into investment in the apprenticeship training space including, you
know, an additional allocation of about a million dollars right before
. . . just a few weeks ago in addition to what we had announced already
as far as new seats the previous year in addition to the additional seats that
we had announced in the budget just not that long ago.
So health care obviously, yeah, that’s a
big one. You know, the Ministry of Health would probably be better positioned
to talk about some of their recruitment efforts in those spaces. We do support
on that, but really a lot of those are led by the Ministry of Health as far as
the recruitment efforts. But we do provide support through our international
office network and I think increasingly through our credential recognition
office, will be playing an important role in that.
But in that health care space, it’s an
interesting example actually because it was a big part of the discussion that
we’ve had with the Department of Migrant Workers for example in the Philippines
where — because of really I think quite a unique relationship that we have
established with the government of the Philippines — there has been a
significant effort on the part of a number of their different agencies and
universities and government to design training programs in their health care
system such that they are really congruent with what would be required to have
a credential easily recognized within the Saskatchewan system.
So we worked very closely
. . . the Ministry of Health had worked closely with them on that,
but you know, that’s something that . . . an area where obviously
there is always room for more. So we work there. I’ll leave it there.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thanks again. I’m looking for numbers.
So what the size of the labour market shortage is that your ministry has
identified, and the sectors of the economy specifically that are looking for
additional staff, and what the numbers associated with those are.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Okay, I think I’ve addressed that,
Madam Chair.
Ms.
A. Young: — Respectfully, Minister, I’ve heard
you talk about apprenticeships generally. I’ve heard you talk about health care
generally, indicating those questions should go to the Ministry of Health. And
I heard you mention hospitality. So what I’m hearing is you’re not able or
willing to provide numbers associated with specific sectors of the economy that
are experiencing labour market shortages.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — This would be better put to the Immigration
and Career Training officials. We’ll have that in perhaps a more detailed
fashion at the next meeting.
Ms.
A. Young: — So then as minister for both Trade
and Export as well as ICT, one of your responsibilities is obviously to work
with these ministries to ensure that the various areas in government are
working to ensure that people are either being trained, matched, or brought
into Saskatchewan to fill those shortages. In addressing that, you’ve spoken to
the three pillars of your labour market strategy, and that would be how you
choose to address that.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, well I’m happy to go through
them again. So I’m not sure . . .
Ms.
A. Young: — No, it’s okay. We’ve already gone
through.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I’m not sure the . . .
Ms.
A. Young: — I think, 40 minutes . . .
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I’m not sure the member would have
quite heard what we were talking about.
Ms.
A. Young: — Yeah.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — You know, really what we are talking
about in the labour market strategy, Madam Chair . . .
The
Chair: — Can I just answer? Your question is
a valid question, but the ministry folks that would probably have the numbers
are not the folks that are here at this moment. So it can be left.
Ms.
A. Young: — For sure. I’ll move on to a new
question then. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Maybe I’ll ask a couple of specific
questions and go back to labour market. So for SIIFC, that budget remains
$75 million. Is that accurate?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — The allocation through the Indigenous
Investment Finance Corporation is $75 million. That’s right.
Ms.
A. Young: — Perfect. And you indicated there’s a
federal program being modelled on that, which is great to hear, and
. . .
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — [Inaudible] . . . what was
the question, sorry?
Ms.
A. Young: — Eligible applicants are able to
apply for up to $5 million. Do you believe that the size of this
allocation is sufficient? Both the $5 million and the $75 million for
the program overall?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Well I would say that, number one, I
think it’s important to have context around what we have done. This was really
something that’s never been done in Saskatchewan before, Madam Chair. We had
worked with and identified, rightly identified, an area where there is
significant challenge.
I talked about this a bit in public — it
hasn’t gotten a huge amount of attention from media or others — but the reality
is that there are legitimate legal and constitutional barriers that First
Nations particularly have in raising equity capital for investment into
different projects. And the reason for that really is the nature of how the
Constitution is set up as far as seizure or the ability to leverage capital
that is located on First Nations.
For most people, you can, for example,
if you want to go to the bank and borrow money, whether it’s to start a
business or for whatever other reason, most people use as collateral, you know,
different physical assets that they have, whether that be land, whether that be
a home, whether that be other chattels that are capable of being legally used
for that purpose.
The challenge that First Nations have is
that, for companies and for individuals — and for governments, frankly — is
that because of the unique legal status of reserve land, you can’t actually
borrow against the value of any property or chattel that could be relocated on
to reserve by somebody covered by section 35 of the Constitution. So this is
really a genuine area in the textbook definition of market failure.
And we really thought hard about how we
could address this in the context of real world challenges that First Nation
companies and development corporations were having, even where there was a, you
know, long-standing relationship, raising capital to have equity positions in
projects or companies that were formed for the purpose of advancing an economic
interest or an economic objective.
So the solution we came to — and I think
Alberta kind of came to the solution at a similar time as us, but I mean, we
had worked with them on different things and I think we came to a spot that was
similar — was that as government we needed to be able to provide basically
. . . I mean, and what it is, it’s a loan guarantee to Indigenous
governments, corporations, individuals to be able to leverage and invest in and
take an equity position in different projects.
And I think that this was the right
policy analysis that we worked through on this, and we worked with partners on
it. And frankly it’s the same conclusion the Government of Canada came to —
much too late, I would say. It actually is an area the Government of Canada should
have been leading.
You know, we actually were just talking
about it before because we haven’t fully seen a — Matt Smith, by the way, who
runs the SIIFC, to my left — we actually haven’t seen all of the details of the
federal program. But what we have seen thus far I think is encouraging. And
we’ve had significant input into some of their deliberations on this.
But you know, I would say that given the
process that we had went through, this was an appropriate allocation. I
wouldn’t rule out there being additional allocation going into the future.
There’s been a very high degree of interest in the program.
You know, we’re going to learn through
this. One of the things we always really try and do is be nimble and
responsive, making sure that whatever programs we have, we’re always looking
for ways that we can make them better. And that’s something that I think really
is a part of the culture of Trade and Export Development and ICT.
So you know, the short answer is I think
where we are at is a good place. It’s far, far in advance of where we had been,
you know, 17 years ago in this space. And I think the fact that many Indigenous
businesses and governments are working through this process right now I think
speaks to the fact that there is a need and a definite interest in being a part
of this.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. You mentioned Alberta. My
understanding is the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corp. is funded, or has
up to $3 billion available. And we’re at $75 million, which is
roughly two and a half per cent in comparison to Alberta. Can you speak to that
discrepancy?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Well I would say again by way of
background, this is a brand new . . . a relatively new program, none
of which had existed under previous governments in Saskatchewan. This was
entirely our initiative moving forward. So I’m not going to rule out kind of
what the future would look like. I think there’s some very exciting
announcements coming, let me put it that way, about what the future of this
program is going to look like.
Ms.
A. Young: — So a program two and a half per cent
the size of Alberta’s is currently sufficient?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I’m not sure the member fully heard
the response. So you know, we are always looking at what options might look
like going forward on this, and stay tuned.
Ms.
A. Young: — How many projects have been funded?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I’ll let Matt maybe speak to where
we are going through on this. We’re working through many.
Mr.
Smith: — Sure. So I’m Matt Smith, CEO of the
Saskatchewan Indigenous Investment Finance Corporation. We’ve had multiple
discussions with a very broad range of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous
proponents. We do have several applications at different stages of the
application process. You know, certainly as the minister, you know, mentioned,
it is a new kind of initiative in Saskatchewan, and certainly there’s been
learning both on, you know, from the Indigenous communities and organizations
as well as, you know, the non-Indigenous proponents. So you know, I want to be
respectful of kind of confidentiality, but I will say there’s multiple
applications in front of the SIIFC at the moment.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. And SIIFC was launched
June 1st, 2022 if I’m correct. Have any projects made their way fully through
the application process?
[16:30]
Mr.
Smith: — So what I would say in response to
that is the application process has a number of phases. So there’s an initial
application, a pre-application phase where, you know, after that
pre-application is submitted the SIIFC will, you know, determine if the
applicant is eligible, if the sector is eligible, if the amount is eligible,
whatnot. You know, and then from that it moves into a full application whereby
the external consultant SIIFC utilizes is brought in to conduct some of that
additional analysis. And then it’s put before the board.
So I would say that projects have gone
to the appropriate stage in that process whereby they were determined to not
move further.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — So I would maybe add to that. Matt
put it well. We are getting . . . I would say for members that, you
know, pay attention kind of coming up in the next while. There is going to be
some significant and exciting developments, but we can’t pre-announce anything
quite yet.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. Has any one single
project gone through the entire process and been approved and received money?
Mr.
Smith: — No.
Ms.
A. Young: — Okay. Thank you. Have any dollars
gone out the door to project proponents to date?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — You have to remember this is not a
grant program. So I’m not sure if the member fully understands how this works.
Ms.
A. Young: — Yeah, we’ve canvassed this lots.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — This is a loan guarantee. So the
actual resources are provided by either financial institutions or partners in
the project, but the role that the Government of Saskatchewan plays in that is
guaranteeing the loan for the Indigenous organization.
So there is not a dollar outlay that the
Government of Saskatchewan actually makes in this process. So it’s important to
remember that. And the . . . [inaudible] . . . questions if
that was clear.
Ms.
A. Young: — Sure. I will . . . I think
the minister knew what I meant, but I’ll ask it again. How many loans have been
guaranteed through this program and what is the value?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — We will be making some
announcements.
Ms.
A. Young: — So I’m hearing none to date.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — We will be making some announcements
soon.
Ms.
A. Young: — Like to talk about, as the minister
indicated and spoke to in his opening remarks, Government of Saskatchewan’s
travel to COP. Are all the reported travel costs inclusive?
Mr.
France: — Kevin France, assistant deputy
minister for international engagement. Thanks for the question. So the question
was, are all travel costs inclusive that were publicly reported? Yes. Yes they
are.
Ms.
A. Young: — And how many officials from the
international trade offices were in attendance?
Mr. France:
— At COP28? We had . . . Sorry, can you repeat the question? The
international office staff? Is that what you said? Yeah. We had four MDs,
managing directors, in attendance.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. And would their travel
costs be included in that universal travel cost that you addressed in your
first response? Or are their travel costs, like, tied essentially to the
offices?
Mr. France:
— Yeah, what we report is the mission cost, not universal travel costs, and so
there are costs tied to offices that include travel within regions, travel to
events, and so on, as well as travel back home.
Ms.
A. Young: — Okay, so the travel of the mission
directors would not be included in that universal number for the mission to
COP?
Mr. France:
— So again, universal number being the publicly reported mission costs? No,
it’s not.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. Do you have a figure
associated with that travel for the MDs?
Mr. France:
— We do not have the breakdown for individual managing director travel to Dubai
for COP28.
Ms.
A. Young: — So that’s not available?
Mr. France:
— No.
Ms.
A. Young: — Are the travel costs associated with
all ministerial staff included?
Mr. France:
— Yes.
Ms.
A. Young: — Going back to the MDs for a second,
the total costs associated with the MDs in those offices, is that consistent
with what was reported in last year’s public accounts?
Mr. France:
— It’s the same amount, yes.
Ms.
A. Young: — So my understanding is, and forgive
me if I am mistaken on this, that some of them did start halfway through
fiscal. So do you have a total dollar value associated with that?
Mr. France:
— Can you expand on your question? What are you asking for?
Ms.
A. Young: — So I’m asking for the total costs
associated with the MDs in each of the offices. If it’s . . . Because
some of them started half way through last fiscal, the number in last year’s
public accounts would not be inclusive of the full year-over-year costs, so I’m
looking for a dollar value associated with that year.
Mr. France:
— And so your question is relative to the public account salaries? Is that what
you’re asking?
Ms.
A. Young: — Inclusive. I’m not sure what would
be included in there, if it’s salaries, if there’s living allowances, if
there’s travel allowances associated with that.
Mr. France:
— Yes.
Ms. A. Young:
— I assume you take my meaning. Thank you.
Mr. France:
— Yeah. Thanks for the question. So for ’24‑25 the total budget for our international
offices is 13.773 million. And what I’ll do is I’ll go through the total
cost per office. And what’s included in the total cost per office is both our
Canadian-based salaries, so our managing director’s salary as well as our
common services agreement with Global Affairs Canada, and then our locally
engaged staff, their salaries as well as their common services agreement
through Global Affairs Canada.
And so for our China office it’s going
to be 878,000; for India, 994,000; Japan, 1.279; Singapore, 1.237 million;
Mexico, 1.057 million; UAE [United Arab Emirates], 1.293 million;
Vietnam, 935,000; UK, 1.291; and Germany, 1.358, for a total of 13.773.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you very much for that. And
you referenced salary specifically. Is that inclusive of all human resource
costs associated with those MDs? Like there wouldn’t be additional living
allowances or . . . I’m not sure what else would be considered for
those folks working internationally, but that number is inclusive?
Mr. France:
— Yeah. So there’s the salary plus the common services agreement with Global
Affairs Canada. Inclusive in the salaries would be, you know, again it’s some
of the relocation, travel, those type of things. Home, we do allow for a home
visit once a year. So it does include some of those, yeah.
Ms.
A. Young: — Okay. Thank you. So what I’m hearing
is those figures provided do cover off the total costs of that specific
agreement.
Mr. France:
— Yeah. That’s fair. Yeah.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. In a similar fashion,
like office by office, are you able to advise me how many government staff and
how many contractors work in each of the offices?
Mr. France:
— Yeah, so again our nine international offices, we have a managing director,
which is a Canadian-based staff hired through our Public Service Commission, as
well as two locally engaged staff. Those are through Global Affairs Canada,
staffed through Global Affairs Canada. So essentially they’re Canadian staff,
and through our common services agreement with the federal government, includes
the salaries for those two staff.
Ms.
A. Young: — Okay, great. Thank you. Do you have
a breakdown of the goods and services expenses budgeted in each office for I
suppose the categories of salaries, travel, supplies, equipment rental,
consulting?
Mr. France:
— So what’s budgeted? Yeah.
Ms.
A. Young: — Yeah.
Mr. France:
— Actually just I’ll make sure I have the right document in front of me.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you.
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison:
— So maybe, Madam Chair, maybe in the interim, officials are putting together
some information, and Kevin will provide that for the committee. But I think
there’s an illustrative example. We provided a couple in the introductory
remarks about the value of what our offices and our staff, you know — who have
been accused of being basically partisan hacks, which frankly is offensive —
professional public servants who have done a remarkable job in representing
this province around the world.
But here’s one example of why we need to
be in countries, particularly our important trading partners, representing our
interest. And I appreciate the work that is done by our Trade Commissioner
Service and by our, you know, diplomatic personnel in different areas around
the country. But the reality is that for a lot of missions, Global Affairs
Canada missions, their priorities are not Saskatchewan priorities. And that’s
just a fact. It’s a reality. If we are not there representing our interests,
they’re not going to get represented.
And you know, one of the examples of
that was the mission that we undertook to Vietnam last year. That was in
January, Jodi, that we were in . . .
Ms. Banks:
— December.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — December of last year that we were
in Vietnam, and we had recently opened our international office there. Ha
Nguyen, who is our MD, done a great job. We just actually . . . I saw
him yesterday, actually. He’s in country right now. Done a great job.
So we had a number of meetings with some
of their large companies there. One of their very large importers, buyers, an
important CEO in their system who also was a member of parliament in their
system and a part of the governing party, you know, the first thing he raised
when we sat down, he’s like, you know, we’d like to source more of your ag
commodities. Particularly in that case, it was wheat. And the reason being that
they were concerned about the reliance that they had on Russian production.
That was actually the issue.
Vietnam was, you know, highly reliant on
supply from Russia. They were understandably very concerned about the long-term
sustainability and reliability of that supply chain and they wanted to
diversify the sources from which they would purchase wheat. So they wanted to
buy more from our suppliers as it turns out.
So anyway this was raised and we had a
discussion around it. And he, you know, the CEO of the company, very large
company, he raised the issue and was like, we’re not really sure why Canada is
prioritizing blueberry exports and really using that as a lever in a bilateral
discussion about Canadian wheat exports. And I was kind of like, well we
weren’t really quite entirely sure. And Jodi was there as well, and Richelle
was there. So we weren’t entirely sure what that meant.
[16:45]
So the next meeting we had was with the
Minister of Agriculture in Vietnam, or actually it was the Minister of Trade
was the next meeting. And you know, a very similar discussion where the
Minister of Trade just directly raised this: “We do not understand, given our
determination to move in the direction of diversifying wheat imports from
Canada” — but really from Saskatchewan is where they . . . that’s
where our companies that we were working with were — “why Canada won’t resolve
this.” You know, it was a phytosanitary issue on wheat exports. “We don’t
understand. We want to buy more of your stuff, but Canada is leveraging
blueberry exports.” Basically saying, unless you buy our blueberries we’re
unprepared to resolve the wheat issue. You know, obviously frustrating. And we
had a good discussion about what a path might look like on that.
The next meeting was with the Ag
minister, who raised the exact same issue. And finally we just said, look, we
are going to make sure that we are working with Canada, and this is going to be
the number one issue to be resolved. Because we were at zero dollars in wheat
exports that year. That was 2022.
And as it turns out, we would not have
known the reason why there was an unwillingness on the part of Canada to resolve
the bilateral wheat export issue unless we had been on the ground, where as it
turns out, the Liberal government had given direction that they were to
leverage Western Canadian wheat exports, valued at hundreds of millions of
dollars, for $150,000 of blueberries from Prince Edward Island where, lo and
behold, the Liberal Agriculture minister’s riding is. So this issue was
resolved in relatively short order.
We had some very positive discussions in
following up, as you would have seen just last week. The ambassador from
Vietnam to Canada was here talking about the 1,000 per cent increase in wheat
exports from Saskatchewan to Vietnam that are going to be worth this year over
$200 million.
That would never have happened but for
the fact that we were on the ground, met in person with the decision makers on
the Vietnamese side, and were able to resolve the issue. It would never have
happened because Canada would still be taking the position that unless there
was $150,000 of blueberry exports from Prince Edward Island in the minister’s
riding, it was not to be resolved.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. Well perhaps while we
wait . . .
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I think, Kevin, you actually have an
answer on that last question as well, right?
Mr.
France: — Yeah, thanks, Minister. And just to
the question in terms of what’s been allocated to our offices for ’24‑25,
we’ve allocated in our budget 3.9 million for operational support for each
office, divided amongst the offices. I would say that it’s not consistent for
office per office, because again each office’s demands and needs are different
and they do vary. However that’s the total budgeted amount.
And again to the minister’s point, I
think what we’ve seen through our international offices, what we’ve seen
. . . You mentioned COP earlier and managing directors. The reality
is is what COP28 provided us was essentially a place where there was over 196
countries attending, and which a lot came from and clients came from and
relationships came from our international network. And as such, they were there
to facilitate and support those meetings in market at COP28.
You know, and again I hope there’s more
questions about COP28, because there’s a tremendous amount of success and
important not just meetings and outcomes and presentations, but really in terms
of meaningful impact back here at home. For example we were able to meet with
UAE leadership, many investment companies, as well as senior dignitaries. For
example, Dr. Thani, who’s the Economy minister for the UAE who’s expressed
interest in Saskatchewan, not just in terms of relationships but really about
investment.
And we have shared investment
opportunities of over 1.7 billion with the UAE leadership, and which that
is starting to facilitate actually meetings and really conserve, you know,
focus in terms of what those investments are, and really hopefully lead into
that investment back here at home.
And so when you asked about MDs and
market, I think it’s important to note that they were there to support both the
relationships they have, from whether it’s Japan or the other offices in
market, to ensure that the story and the messaging that we were doing around
COP28, that they were there to hear and meet with the clients and the companies
that came from Saskatchewan to participate in COP28.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, maybe I’ll just
. . .
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you, sir. My question was
about the breakdown of goods and services expenses budgeted for each office in
salaries, travel, supplies, equipment, consulting, and other expenses. And for
the consulting category specifically, I’d like to ask for a list of the
specific contracts and services being provided by the contractor that’s been
budgeted for.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Maybe . . . I’m sure that
there’ll be . . . The officials are doing some work on that. But
maybe just to follow up a little bit on the United Arab Emirates as another
example, a case study, a jurisdiction where, you know, we’ve worked hard to
build relationships at the political and decision-making level in that market.
And it’s a market where — it’s interesting — you know, there’s not necessarily
a large domestic consumer population in the United Arab Emirates. But what
there is is a significant secondary export market through the infrastructure
that exists in the UAE to move products from Saskatchewan into other parts of
the world.
So a lot of the actual export value that
you will see that will be allocated to basically a final destination actually
is facilitated through the United Arab Emirates and through ports like Jebel
Ali, where a lot of our commodities, particularly canola . . . A lot
of our canola exports that are accounted for in the exports to other
jurisdictions are actually routed through the UAE, which is not showing up
necessarily as a UAE export market.
But what it means though is having the
political relationships and business relationships really is an opportunity to
facilitate a very significant potential increase in the amount of exports. So
Dr. Thani, who’s their Economy minister, we’ve had the opportunity to meet and
discuss different elements with a number of times.
You know, particularly as it
. . . There’s a whole number of areas, but I’ll just kind of single
out one of them, which is around the nuclear file. So the United Arab Emirates
are in the process right now of constructing a number of reactors. The first
one just went live in the last year, I think even in the last six months or so.
But they have a significant nuclear program and are looking to expand that even
further.
They have to buy the uranium from
somewhere. And there are a number of options around the world that we are in
competition for sourcing that uranium commodity. We’ve worked . . .
And I can tell you, we probably weren’t on the radar for where they would be
sourcing uranium for even three or four years ago. Because of the work that we
have done with our partners and our companies here in this province, directly
with the decision makers in the UAE, we have made very significant progress as
to where that uranium in the long term will be sourced from.
And you know, we’re not making any
announcements. They’re not mine to make. But again these are things that are
resulting in very real economic opportunity and jobs in northern Saskatchewan
and very real and significant investment in northern Saskatchewan. So that
discussion would not be happening, but for the fact that we were directly
engaging with the decision makers in a very personal way.
And our office in the United Arab
Emirates has been a big part of how we’ve facilitated that discussion. In fact
the Emirati electric company were here last summer and we toured them through
the facilities and the mine sites in northern Saskatchewan. Well we didn’t; one
of our companies did. And you know, not my announcement to make, but I think
we’re going to see some pretty positive outcomes.
So again that would not have happened
but for the fact that we have international offices. And I’d frankly think, you
know, the position of the opposition of shutting down all of our international
offices . . . And I mean, let’s be clear what these questions are
about. They’re trying to make the case that somehow the million dollars a year
we spend on international offices is completely wasted and it’s all for political
hacks and blah, blah, blah. I mean, this is utter nonsense. Utter
. . . And frankly it’s offensive to me as minister that our public
servants would be accused of this. But you know, drive-by smears, that’s what
they do.
So the reality is that we are creating
hundreds of millions of dollars of economic activity for our producers, whether
they be in the ag sector, whether they be in the mining sector. These are jobs
that are being created here in this province because of the work that our
dedicated public servants are undertaking around the world every single day,
and work that would not be done by the Trudeau-Singh government, whose priority
is absolutely not advancing the Western Canadian and Saskatchewan agriculture,
energy, and mining sectors. I can guarantee you of that.
So we’re going to keep doing it,
regardless as to the criticism — unfounded criticism — from those across the
way. We’re going to keep doing it because it results in benefit, jobs,
investment from around the world that creates a better life for our people here
in Saskatchewan.
Ms. A. Young:
— Thank you. Before your official gets the answer, I just want to pick up on
one thing, Minister, that you just said, that uranium from Saskatchewan would
not be purchased by those international buyers without the trade office in the
UAE. I just want to make sure I understood you correctly. Like the only reason people in the UAE
are purchasing uranium from Saskatchewan is not because of Cameco, you know —
who accounts for, what, almost 20 per cent of the world’s uranium projections,
the second-largest uranium company in the world — but it’s because of the trade
offices. I just want to make sure I got that.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Happy to read a quote. Tim Gitzel,
president and CEO of Cameco:
With the intense
focus on nuclear energy at COP28, it was the right time for Cameco to attend
its first COP conference. It was bringing together industry and government to
discuss net zero opportunities. In Dubai, Cameco joined 120 global companies
and industry organizations in signing the net zero nuclear pledge, committing
to a goal of tripling nuclear capacity by 2050.
Over the week we
made great progress in speaking with governments, utilities, stakeholders, and
potential customers about the importance of zero emission nuclear energy
powered by Saskatchewan uranium. Cameco was pleased to be a part of the
Saskatchewan delegation led by Premier Moe. This week was about helping build a
vision for a cleaner world, and we succeeded.
We can find more. I mean, CEO Gitzel
made a number of statements around that, including recording a video about the
value that Cameco has found in working with our international offices, about
the value that Cameco has found in working with the provincial government. We
had a great announcement actually just a few months ago at SRC [Saskatchewan
Research Council] where, you know, as a partner with Westinghouse, Cameco being
a 49 per cent owner of Westinghouse, on the eVinci reactor project.
You know, I think it’s fair to say
. . . We appreciate Cameco a great deal. A great company, a great Saskatchewan
success story. Cameco sees the value, Cameco sees the value of our
international office network and the very, very close working relationship that
Cameco has with the Government of Saskatchewan, Trade and Export Development,
with SRC. We are partners in this, and we work as partners in this because
again this results in very real benefits for the people of the province. And
I’ll leave it there.
Ms.
A. Young: — Yeah. Great company. Great leader,
Mr. Gitzel. Remarkable things happening there. Recognizing the time, perhaps I
will look to get the answer to my questions later through the committee if it’s
unavailable today, Madam Chair. Is that acceptable?
The
Chair: — Do you have the numbers available?
[17:00]
Mr. France:
— Yeah, I can speak to . . .
The
Chair: — Okay. Thank you.
Mr. France:
— Yeah, I can speak to the numbers that was asked. In terms of, again, the
total amount of 13.77 that’s been allocated into our budget for international
offices, you asked about contracts and consultants. None of that money is going
towards contracts and consultants. In fact the money goes towards, again, our
Canadian-based staff, our managing directors, our common services agreement
with Global Affairs Canada.
It’s important to note within that common
services agreement it includes HR [human resources] management services,
information IT [information technology] services, program delivery support,
property and material services, security services, and transportation services.
As well in that budget, it includes our locally engaged staff, our salary for
those locally engaged staff, the common services agreement tied to those staff
as well. And then again, to your question earlier in terms of resources for
activities in market.
Ms.
A. Young: — Great. Thank you. And earlier you
cited the figure of $3.9 million. That’s essentially the money that’s
spent on oversight and administration here in Saskatchewan for those offices as
a whole; is that correct? No?
Mr. France:
— No. That 3.9 is operational for the offices.
Ms. A. Young:
— Okay. And so then looking at vote 90, of the $19.271 million, how much
of that is being spent essentially like here in Saskatchewan for oversight and
administration, and how much is being spent at the offices?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Officials are kind of getting that
together.
You know, there was mention of India
earlier, one of the markets again where we have really worked hard and where
our international staff have really worked hard at building relationships. But
I would say that, you know, as senior officials and elected, we have put a
significant emphasis on the Indian market.
And the reason we have done that, this
is one of the fastest growing economies in the world — largest country in the
world, 1.4 billion people in India — and historically a trade partner with
potential but never really realized potential. And I think that you would find
across Canada a view that generally that’s been the case.
Any given year, and it kind of depends
on the year, but all of Canada’s trade with India is really a story of
Saskatchewan’s trade with India, because we range annually between 30 and 50
per cent of Canada’s entire exports actually come from Saskatchewan.
So the economic relationship is really
one that is our economic relationship with India, and we have really felt it
important that we have a political relationship that is commensurate with that
economic relationship, especially considering the catastrophe that the
political relationship between Justin Trudeau . . . the Trudeau-Singh
government has had with India.
So when Trudeau first formed government,
our pea-lentil exports to India were . . . It varied annually a
little bit, but it would be, you know, 4 to $500 million annually as a
part of an overall $1 billion-plus trade relationship with India. Folks
might remember Justin Trudeau’s dress-up tour of India — his, really,
embarrassment of the Indian government — that resulted in a significant
economic impact.
What happened in the immediate aftermath
of that — and it wasn’t just the dress-up tour; there was a lot more that went
into it than that — but we ended up with the Indian government making a
decision to put a tariff onto Canadian pea and lentil imports that really made
it economically impossible for there to be exports from Canada, which meant
exports from Saskatchewan. So we went from $500 million . . .
Well, we went from a billion overall to 500 to zero. Thank you, Justin Trudeau.
So what did we do? We engaged. We worked
very hard as a sub-national with support — with Prime Minister Harper, frankly,
who has unparalleled relationships of probably anybody in the country,
political relationships — to rebuild that relationship and make the case for
Saskatchewan, and I think more broadly for Canada, about why pea and lentil
exports from Saskatchewan were making sense for India.
So we, you know, personally met with the
most senior decision makers in the Indian government, a number of their
ministers, including Minister Goyal who, you know, obviously was the minister
who carried the file within the Government of India, plays a very significant
role in the Modi government, and who we have a very good relationship with. You
know, we made the case and, you know, Minister Goyal committed to doing a
review. And lo and behold, India took the tariff off, which resulted in
hundreds of millions of dollars of pea and lentil exports in the very following
year because of that.
Again, the benefit of having these
relationships. What happened with Justin Trudeau’s accusations against the Modi
government . . . unproven allegations. There have yet to be any
arrests. I have seen nothing substantive that has come beyond the announcement
that the Prime Minister made. I can guarantee it — we would have, but for the
relationship we have independently with India, seen again tariffs that would
have appeared on our pea and lentil exports, which are worth hundreds of
millions of dollars a year. And they did not, and in fact we have the Indian
High Commissioner visiting Saskatchewan and talking about the very positive
relationship with this jurisdiction. This is why we do this.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. If the minister is unable
or unwilling to provide an answer to my question about vote 9, subvote 4 in the
budget, I’ll move on. Looking at . . .
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — The
official is happy to. Yes. Yes.
The
Chair: — The ministry . . .
[inaudible] . . . an answer for you.
Mr. France:
— Our headquarters budget for operational support is 1 million.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you.
I’d like to ask a question or two about
the minimum revenue guarantee provided to WestJet as part of the agreement to
establish a regular flight from Saskatoon to Minneapolis. Of the
$2.2 million budgeted per year for three years — please correct me if I’m
wrong, I understood that that first year expired as of April 1 — how much of
that minimum revenue guarantee was spent? And what was, another way of asking,
how much was left at the end of the year?
Mr. Lynch:
— Tyler Lynch, assistant deputy minister of the economic development division.
The flight in general, especially for being first year of the flight, was very
successful. I think the Saskatoon Airport Authority and WestJet as well were
quite happy with the flight. Often these, when it’s a new flight, it takes some
time to grow capacity, but the results particularly in the summer were really
strong to the point that WestJet is now offering that flight on a daily service
rather than three times a week as it is currently.
For the MRG [minimum revenue guarantee]
to date, just over half of the MRG total was spent in this past fiscal year.
Ms.
A. Young: — And do you have a dollar value
associated with that?
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison:
— Yeah, and Assistant Deputy Minister Lynch will get that number. But maybe, by
way of context, I think it’s important to understand the origin and genesis of
our partnership with both the Saskatoon Airport Authority and Regina Airport
Authority.
But where it was really impactful was
for airlines, American airlines particularly, that — given the changes in
flight hours and pilot requirements — were put in a position to have to make
decisions about even profitable routes or existing routes or, in the context of
COVID, routes that were not profitable, how, given the limited resources or
more limited resources that they had because of the FAA [federal aviation
administration] rule changes, they were going to make changes in schedules and
flights.
And what it resulted in is flights into
Canada, not just here but across the country, being cancelled by airlines like
Delta and United. And it was not because the flights were not successful or any
considerations of that nature. It was really around resource allocation issues
owing to regulatory changes.
So what it meant though was in this
province the existing flights that we had to US hub cities were no longer
there, this being a significant issue for, you know, our business community
obviously — our outfitting sector I think even more specifically — which was
very dependent on direct air access from cities like Minneapolis, to the point
where the industry really would be in jeopardy of no longer existing but for
action that would re-establish those connections.
So you know, we worked with our airport
authorities who also, you know, had a significant desire to have connections
into US hub cities, looked at different options, looked at different models
that were used by jurisdictions elsewhere, and really, I think, jointly came to
a conclusion that the MRG model was going to be a viable one for both the
Saskatoon airport and the Regina airport in order to re-establish that
international hub connection.
So you know, they did the negotiation. I
mean we let them know we would be partners in this, but really this was
incumbent on both of the airport authorities individually to work, seek out,
and negotiate arrangements with partners to get to a point where that
international connection would continue to exist with the US hub cities.
[17:15]
So the upshot of that were the
announcements that were made with the Saskatoon Airport Authority and the
Regina Airport Authority to partner with WestJet, and the relationship really
on that front is with the airport authorities and the airline, not a direct
relationship with government.
But we have a direct relationship with
the airport authorities with an agreement as far as potential quantums that
they were able to negotiate agreements with in addition to their own resources.
This is not just government resources that are being utilized. The cities are a
part of this and the airport authorities utilize their own resources as well.
So what this has resulted in is that we have direct air access from
Saskatchewan to Minneapolis, which would otherwise not be the case if the NDP
[New Democratic Party] were in government and decided to cancel this, which
they clearly would.
Mr. Lynch:
— The value of the MRG payment for the last fiscal year is 1.2 million, up
at 2.2.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you very much. And the
agreement between the government and the Saskatoon Airport Authority
stipulates, and I’ll quote:
Funding being
provided under this agreement will be used to attract new daily direct flights
from Saskatoon to Minneapolis and the SAA will waive terminal landing fees for
the duration of this agreement. The minimal revenue guarantee can also be used
for retaining existing direct daily US flights if necessary.
You spoke about how this is now moving
to daily service. Is that daily service also covered under this agreement and
could apply to the MRG?
Mr. Lynch:
— Yes. So the MRG value stays the same of $2.2 million a year. The
agreement between the airport authority and government doesn’t change. But for
the summer flight schedule, WestJet has increased that to daily flights.
Ms. A. Young:
— Thank you. And can you confirm for me which subvote contains the funding for
both the Saskatoon Airport Authority agreement with WestJet and — I believe
there’s at least been an announcement — for the Regina Airport Authority? And
I’m looking also to establish how much money there is and in which subvote.
Mr.
Lynch: — So both the MRGs for Regina and
Saskatoon would be contained within the economic development division, subvote
(03).
Ms.
A. Young: — And the amount budgeted this year?
Mr.
Lynch: — Two million.
Ms.
A. Young: — For Regina?
Mr.
Lynch: — No.
Ms.
A. Young: — Or for both?
Mr.
Lynch: — So the total MRG budget is
$2.7 million for both airports, both Saskatoon and Regina airport
authorities.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you. Thank you very much.
Looking at the time, I had hoped to ask some questions about critical mineral
development as an economic objective for Saskatchewan as well as some further
questions about international trade and travel, but I suspect we’ll have
limited time remaining.
So on the question of critical mineral
development, did the government or ministry conduct an economic analysis of the
economic opportunities associated with the development of critical minerals in
Saskatchewan? If yes, I’d love to know more about it. And if the answer is no,
then I’m curious. I’d be interested in some explanation around the investments
of money made if there is no clear . . . if the minister is unable to
be specific about the dollar values or potential of this opportunity here in
Saskatchewan.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yes. No. Thanks, Madam Chair. This
is an opportunity that’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars for the province
of Saskatchewan. It’s really an exciting area as well. So I mean it’s important
to remember too, critical minerals encompass, by the Government of Canada’s
definition, 31 separate elements. Of those 31, 23 are existent in Saskatchewan,
so we have an incredible opportunity in this province to be a critical mineral
mining and processing hub.
And by way of direction on that, we have
really worked to put in place the policy environment such that this opportunity
can be realized through investment, whether that be by companies who are
already here in this province or it be by companies that are looking to make
new investments into the critical mineral space. NexGen is an example of that
in uranium, which is obviously one of the critical minerals that we have in
such healthy abundance here in Saskatchewan.
So to that end, as a part of our
investment attraction strategy we put in place two new incentives that are
going to work and really are quite congruent to incentives that exist in the
energy . . . in the oil sector particularly, the oil and gas processing
incentive. And one of the other incentives that we have modelled that on is the
OGPII [oil and gas processing investment incentive] and . . .
Ms.
Banks: — SPII [Saskatchewan petroleum
innovation incentive].
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Oh yeah, and SPII, petroleum
investment incentive. So those have been really expanded into that critical
minerals space such that . . . And they have been successful in the
oil space to incentivize investment into critical minerals.
In addition to that, in the midstream
rare earth space . . . So of those critical minerals there are a
number of different rare earth elements that can comprise critical minerals. We
have made a very significant investment through the Saskatchewan Research
Council into a vertically integrated midstream processing capacity. And the
reason that we have done that is because we really do see an opportunity and a
competitive advantage that we have in Saskatchewan in that rare earth
processing space, to make this province the hub given all of our competitive
advantages.
That includes workforce. That includes
deep experience in the space. That includes frankly the ability to actually get
a mine built, which in most parts of the world is impossible, which is why we
have the second-highest ranking in the world as a jurisdiction in which to make
investment in the mining space — BHP, you know, obviously being a testament to
that.
So all of these advantages that we have
as a jurisdiction really made sense for us to create policy frameworks to
incentivize investment into critical minerals more broadly but into rare
earths. And you know, this is one space where SRC really has been leading North
America in.
So what that means is that we are
. . . You know, just the other day, a couple of days ago I referenced
it in my opening remarks. You know, one of the very first agreements the
republic of France has ever signed with a sub-national jurisdiction was with
Saskatchewan. And the reason for that is because of all of these advantages and
the progress that’s being made in critical mineral — both mining, refining,
processing, and supply — as a reliable . . . from a friend.
So you know, lithium is an area where I
think we have, you know, very real opportunity. I mean it’s been ridiculed by
the opposition as an opportunity, but it’s a very real opportunity in lithium.
So that is another space that we have been working in. But you know, with
regard to rare earths we’re very excited about that project. I talked about
that a little bit in SRC estimates, but that space . . . and
obviously putting in place the policy environment on critical minerals to
incentivize even more investment into those industries.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you very much. Why has
Saskatchewan not joined the regional energy and resources tables that have been
set up between the provinces, the federal government, and municipalities that
are under way in nine other provinces? And as a consequence, if there’s no such
table in Saskatchewan, how does the government propose to access federal
funding for the development of rare earth minerals and their processing that
other provinces are currently accessing?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Well number one, the federal
government have been a partner in the rare earth project. So Minister Wilkinson
and I made an announcement in, I think, December. I had met with him in London.
That really kind of put the final . . . Jodi was in attendance as
well. We had kind of negotiated the final outcome and made the announcement in
. . . Maybe that was in January we made the announcement.
But Minister Vandal and I just made an
announcement as well at SRC, and that was really focused on recovery rates of
our rare earth resource. So you know, the federal government have been a part
of this. Minister Champagne and I have worked through a whole different number
of elements on this particular project as well, and you know, we talked about
that publicly actually. Minister Champagne and Minister Duncan and I did a
round table — or a fireside chat; I forget what it was — at the Sask Chamber of
Commerce not that long ago and, you know, really talked about the deep
relationship we had on that particular project.
So as far as accessing federal funding
on the rare earth project, on the reactor development projects, I would say
that, you know, significant progress has been made. I’m not sure a regional
table has . . . You know, it has nothing to do with that.
So you know, we’ll leave that. That’s
probably Minister Reiter’s question to answer in a more detailed context. But I
would just say that as far as critical minerals, rare earths specifically, I
think there is . . . You know, we’ve worked well because this is an
area that has an interest for Canada, a strategic interest that goes beyond
just an economic project of itself. There is a strategic significance to being
a rare earth supplier for our allies around the world.
The
Chair: — One last question.
Ms.
A. Young: — I think I’ll leave it there. Thank
you. I’ll leave it.
The
Chair: — Okay. Having reached our agreed-upon
time and seeing no more questions and consider these estimates that have been
before us, we will now adjourn consideration of the estimates for the Ministry
of Trade and Export Development. Minister, any closing remarks?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — No. Well thank you, Madam Chair, for
your work. And thank you to the committee for questions — appreciate it. And
really a very special thank you to our team at Trade and Export, so our
leadership group here in the room but through them our entire team at TED who
work every single day to make Saskatchewan a better place and attract
investment and grow our economy.
The
Chair: — Okay. Ms. Young.
Ms.
A. Young: — Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I’d add my appreciation again to all the officials and public servants working
in the ministry here tonight as well as behind the scenes, as well as
appreciation to yourself, my fellow committee members, Clerks-at-the-Table,
good folks at Hansard and broadcast services, as well as everyone deeply
engaged watching at home. Thank you.
The
Chair: — Thank you. We will now take a recess
till 6:30.
[The committee recessed from 17:29 until
18:30.]
General Revenue Fund
Innovation Saskatchewan
Vote 84
Subvote (IS01)
The
Chair: — All right. Welcome back, committee
members. We are now into consideration for vote 84, Innovation Saskatchewan,
subvote (IS01).
Minister Harrison is here with his
officials. And if the officials could introduce themselves and state their
position the first time they speak at the mike, that would be appreciated, and
Hansard will turn the mike on for you. So, Minister, you can begin introducing
your officials and with any opening remarks.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Sure. Well thanks very much, Madam
Chair. And thanks to committee members for being here this evening as well. We
are pleased to be here for estimates 2024‑25 Innovation Saskatchewan.
Officials: Kari Harvey, I think all
know, chief executive officer of Innovation Saskatchewan on my right; Brent
Sukenik, our vice-president of corporate strategy and services on the left;
Avery Vold, our vice-president of economic development and research
investments, behind; Kelley Moore, vice-president, research and technology park
operations, behind as well; Dani Wawryk, our executive director of
communications and marketing, also behind us.
Innovation Saskatchewan was established
nearly 15 years ago as the central agency responsible for advancing the
Government of Saskatchewan’s innovation priorities. In 2022 the government
introduced The Innovation Saskatchewan Amendment Act to create a single
integrated innovation agency. The legislation moved the Innovation Place
research and technology parks under the authority and management of Innovation
Saskatchewan.
The changes allowed for the agency to
enhance support for the province’s innovation ecosystem with a robust portfolio
unlike any other in the country. Innovation Saskatchewan continues to focus on
its four strategic goals to ensure growth and success: (1) ensuring funded
research institutes are creating economic impacts and are aligned with
Saskatchewan’s research and development priorities; (2) building and supporting
a sustainable and inclusive technology sector; (3) focusing resources into
areas of strategic advantage and opportunity such as ag tech and cleantech to
position Saskatchewan as a world-class innovation hub; and (4) making
Saskatchewan the preferred destination for local, national, and international
researchers, entrepreneurs, and tech companies.
The agency has become an economic driver
and unparalleled supporter of our innovation ecosystem bolstering the
province’s reputation as a global innovation leader. This support ensures that
great ideas can grow here. As the global innovation ecosystem continues to
change, the agency has evolved with it.
This fiscal year, Innovation
Saskatchewan will receive a budget of 31.042 million, an 8.1 per cent
increase from the ’23‑24 budget. Its strategic priorities remain the same
and involve attracting, retaining, and growing the province’s technology sector
and supporting the commercialization of game-changing research. Park operations
will also continue to self-fund maintenance capital projects through its
own-source revenue.
The budget includes two initiatives that
will expand support for key innovation industries. The first is planning for
the redevelopment of the flagship building at the research and technology park
in Saskatoon, aided by an additional $2.42 million in capital
appropriation. The west wing of the Galleria building was home to a single
tenant for over 30 years. Now there’s an opportunity to harness the building’s
potential and activate it in alignment with our province’s economic goals and
sector priorities. This 44,000‑square-foot versatile space can house five
to eight scaling ag tech companies that will have access to specialized
infrastructure, including multi-use occupancy space and laboratories.
This redevelopment project addresses two
key issues for ag start-ups: the lack of a specialized infrastructure available
for smaller companies and the longer timelines required for ag start-ups to get
product to market. This will give them access to high-demand space in a
low-risk environment with connection to the flourishing agriculture community
at the park. With this significant infrastructure investment, Innovation
Saskatchewan will further the high growth trajectory of ag tech companies and
the province will benefit from the positive economic impact.
The parks in Regina and Saskatoon are
epicentres of innovation, home to groundbreaking companies, and surrounded by
key research institutes like the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization.
The parks have demonstrated their ability to support more economic
diversification within our province. More than 200 technology companies have
started their businesses at the park over the past three decades, and nearly 60
per cent of them are still operating.
The parks work in alignment with the
agency’s existing programs and investments to help de-risk research and
development and support companies. For example, Lucent BioSciences received
support from Canada’s largest ag tech venture capital fund, Emmertech, which
Innovation Saskatchewan committed a 15 million anchor investment. The
support helped Lucent BioSciences create a new $19 million manufacturing plant
in Rosetown, which opened last October and created 15 direct jobs and moved all
production previously done in BC [British Columbia] to Prairie Agricultural
Machinery Institute in Melfort, which will move into the Rosetown production
facility upon its completion.
As the Lucent BioSciences team sets up
its manufacturing plant, it has also been expanding its footprint in the
Saskatoon research and technology park. Lucent BioSciences moved to
Saskatchewan because of great partners, a friendly business environment, and
the Emmertech investment. They stayed because of its superior infrastructure,
flexible leasing, and its strong innovation ecosystem.
The second key initiative in this fiscal
year is the expansion of the Saskatchewan technology start-up incentive. Innovation
Saskatchewan is doubling the annual tax credit cap from $3.5 million to
$7 million and expanding eligibility to include cleantech companies.
Launched in 2018, STSI [Saskatchewan
technology start-up incentive] provides a non-refundable 45 per cent tax credit
to individuals, corporations, and venture capital funds that invest in eligible
start-up companies. More than $90 million in private investment has been
attracted to the province through the Saskatchewan technology start-up
incentive. The province’s investor pool has increased by 376 investors, 60 per
cent new to angel investment, and more than 400 jobs among 100 eligible
start-ups have been created.
The STSI enhancements were announced
last month as a key part of Saskatchewan’s new investment attraction strategy
titled Securing the Next Decade of Growth. It is among the most
aggressive angel investment tax incentives in the entire country. By expanding
the cap in the eligibility, STSI is advancing Saskatchewan’s competitive edge
and incentivizing investment in Saskatchewan-based technology companies.
STSI’s inclusion of cleantech start-ups
aligns with the province’s commitment to sustainability and competitiveness
within its resource sectors and is already positively impacting this sector.
For example, Regina-based company Prairie Clean Energy has become a bioenergy
leader in Saskatchewan’s ag tech and cleantech sectors for its environmentally
sustainable solution to agricultural waste. In fall 2022, Prairie Clean Energy
received $180,000 in funding from Innovation Saskatchewan’s Agtech Growth Fund,
and now it’s been approved for the STSI program as one of the first cleantech
companies, which CEO Mark Cooper says has come at exactly the right time.
These developments build upon the incredible
success Innovation Saskatchewan’s core programs have all had since its
inception. The agency is allocating $1 million each to the Saskatchewan
Advantage Innovation Fund or SAIF and to the Agtech Growth Fund. These are dual
research and development grant programs that accelerate the commercialization
of game-changing technologies in agriculture, mining, energy, manufacturing,
and health care and help bring them to market.
The initial investments by Innovation
Saskatchewan have returned exponentially within our provincial economy as
companies stay, grow, and build their technologies and collaborate with
industry right here. Precision AI, a Regina-based company and international
rising star in precision agriculture, received crucial early investments from
the Agtech Growth Fund, which has led to exponential growth of the company and
advancement in technologies that impact our agricultural industry.
Innovation Saskatchewan is allocating
$100,000 between the made-in-Saskatchewan technology, or MIST, and the
Innovation Challenge, two programs that aim to address public sector challenges
with local, innovative solutions. And in this year $2.89 million will
continue to be allocated to the Innovation and Science Fund, which matches
federal funding for research projects at Saskatchewan universities, colleges,
and research institutes.
Madam Chair, in addition to financial
support programs, Innovation Saskatchewan will also continue to support the
community helping to build strong foundations in the province’s innovation
ecosystem with the following commitments: $375,000 to Co.Labs, Saskatchewan’s
first technology incubator, to continue fuelling growth for Saskatchewan
start-ups.
Co.Labs continues to build on its
success. This year alone it has created 120 jobs through start-ups in the
program, $7.2 million in investments, and 19.4 million in combined
revenue, beating last year’s record of 13.2 million. Since its launch in
2017, Co.Labs has incubated 201 start-ups who have produced 812 jobs and
generated $60.7 million in revenue. Its stream of programming has provided
crucial support to founders and been a game changer for the province.
Innovation Saskatchewan has also
committed 400,000 to the technology ecosystem program which supports programs
and initiatives that advance tech sector growth For example, through this
program, Innovation Saskatchewan supports Startup TNT, an organization that
connects angel investors with tech entrepreneurs to foster early-stage
investments in the tech sector through its investment summits. With support
from Innovation Saskatchewan, it’s raised more than $3 million for 24 of
Saskatchewan’s start-up companies.
Innovation Saskatchewan also supports
Cultivator’s Agtech Accelerator. This accelerator supports early-stage ag tech
start-ups in Saskatchewan. With two cohorts completed, it’s raised over
$83 million in private capital across its 32 companies. Cohort 3 is now
under way.
And finally, Innovation Saskatchewan
will also continue investing $3 million in Canada’s largest ag tech
venture capital fund, Emmertech. This was part of the $15 million
commitment announced in 2020 to invest 3 million per year over five years
in the fund managed by Conexus Credit Union to ensure ag tech start-ups in
Saskatchewan continue scaling and growing.
Innovation Saskatchewan also plays a key
role in supporting and advancing our research community by funding six of the
major institutions that make up Saskatchewan’s world-class research
infrastructure. The agency will continue its core operational funding of
$4.149 million to VIDO [Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization]. This
funding, in addition to our previously announced $15 million, will support
the establishment of Canada’s Centre for Pandemic Research in Saskatoon.
Construction began in February and
renovations are projected to be completed in the following year. The centre
already includes a vaccine manufacturing facility, which opened in June 2022.
This manufacturing facility will soon be able to produce 40 million doses
of human and animal vaccines per year. The centre will also include a new
facility capable of housing a wider range of animals and will expand
pre-clinical research and development capacity as well.
With the level 4 containment capacity
VIDO will become only the second laboratory after the Winnipeg lab capable of
working with the most dangerous pathogens, an incredible feat for our province.
These important enhancements will attract new talent, develop the next
generation of scientists, and support researchers and make Saskatchewan a
leader in vaccine research and development.
Innovation Saskatchewan will allocate
$2.5 million to the Sylvia Fedoruk Canadian Centre for Nuclear Innovation.
The Fedoruk Centre operates the Saskatchewan Cyclotron Facility, and since 2016
it has had an incredible impact on the Saskatchewan population.
Ten years ago PET [positron emission
tomography], PET scanning for cancer diagnoses wasn’t available in the
province. In this past year alone the Royal University Hospital has performed
PET/CT [positron emission tomography/computerized tomography] scans for
clinical diagnoses of 3,240 patients, with isotopes delivered from the
Saskatchewan Cyclotron Facility. This is a 20 per cent increase over the
previous fiscal year, where 2,691 patients received PET/CT scans.
[18:45]
Additional funding commitments include
the following: $4.1 million for the Canadian Light Source, a major
national science facility and home to the only synchrotron in Canada — since
2005, CLS [Canadian Light Source Inc.] has enabled more than 5,000 scientists
from 56 Canadian academic institutions and 45 countries to make groundbreaking
discoveries and advancements in science; 1.675 million for the Petroleum
Technology Research Centre which provides project management and funding
support for research into enhanced oil recovery and carbon storage, including
its Aquistore facility near Estevan; $256,000 for the industry-led
International Minerals Innovation Institute to support digital mining
transformation; and finally, $4.849 million for the Saskatchewan Health
Research Foundation which allocates funding to high-impact and peer-reviewed
health research relevant to the people of the province.
By maintaining funding levels to
research institutions, Innovation Saskatchewan is supporting world-class
researchers, infrastructure, and community, and advancing the province’s
research capacity, economy, and global competitiveness.
In closing, in 2024‑25 the agency
will expand on its strong foundations to extend support for Saskatchewan’s
innovation ecosystem and continue to champion the Saskatchewan advantage as the
province strives to be the best place to develop a technology company and
undertake advanced research to solve global challenges. The government is proud
Innovation Saskatchewan is leading this mission and of the work it has done to
strengthen Saskatchewan’s core sectors, as well as advancing innovation
opportunities in support of our growth plan.
This concludes my opening remarks and I
look forward to questions from the committee. Thank you.
The
Chair: — Thank you, Minister. Before I open
the floor to questions, I just want to note change to committee members this
evening. We have, sitting in for Aleana Young, Noor Burki; and in for Jennifer
Bowes is Ms. Betty Nippi-Albright. All right. I’ll open the floor to questions
from committee members and recognize Ms. Nippi-Albright.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Miigwech, Madam Chair. Thank you for
the presentation. It’s always interesting to hear what’s happening with
Innovation Saskatchewan and always good to hear the wonderful things that are
being done.
But before I get into the questions, I
just wanted to kind of address something that just happened just before we
started the meeting, and I wasn’t sure what the intent was behind the comment
that was made about our chits, chits sheets by the Madam Chair, stating that
she wasn’t sure if my colleague from Regina Coronation Park and I understood
what the meaning was, what we understood the questions regarding the chits
sheets. So I’m not sure what was implied as we both are pretty good at English,
understanding English.
So I’m not sure what that was. I just
wanted to enter that here on record just before the meeting started, whether
that . . . we have been . . . We understand what chit
sheets are and we have a good grasp of the English language. So I’m not sure
what that was, so I just wanted to enter that. And so I’ll start out with some
questions.
The
Chair: — Can I answer you, Ms.
Nippi-Albright? There was no implication made. Noor gave us a sheet for someone
that you gave the same sheet for, so that’s why my comment is that we needed to
get the right ones. It wasn’t that I was implying anything, that you didn’t
understand. It’s just that we had two sheets for the same person.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — No, what I heard was precisely, “I
don’t think they understand.” So that was fine. Anyway, we’ll move on.
But
I just wanted to get back with the Innovation Saskatchewan here. It’s always,
like I said, interesting to hear the innovation that’s happening here in
Saskatchewan. Because of the time and the amount of time that we have, what I
really would like to know more about is this, the exciting, what I think is
exciting is the Saskatchewan Technology Fund and how that . . . The
mandate, of course, is developing policies and programs and conducting
activities, etc. But I’m interested in more, hearing more about kind of, is
there a board for the agency and who are the members on the board? And just the
difference between the administration or the advisors. I wasn’t quite sure on
that, so if you could share with that.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. No, I appreciate it. It’s a
good question. It is, and I think you’ve hit on . . . It’s a bit of a
complicated answer. So really the Ministry of Environment kind of managed the
policy and of the program. It’s one where Innovation Saskatchewan really is the
administrator, but we don’t do the policy part of it.
So I was going to ask maybe Kari to
expand a bit more on that, because it is a good question and it deserves a more
fulsome answer. So go ahead, Kari.
Ms.
Harvey: — Hi. Kari Harvey, CEO of Innovation
Saskatchewan getting in. So yeah, as the minister mentioned, you know, our role
in relation to the technology fund is really just to help with the
administration, sort of the back-office work, the accounting. So we are running
the intake.
I can give a little bit of an overview
of sort of what’s transpired to date. In September of this year the call for
expressions of interest was announced. From there the invitations for full
proposals were sent in February of 2024. We’re really just going to be entering
the review period for the proposals and then decisions around, you know, which
projects will be selected will happen at a later date. So essentially, you
know, we ensure that there is, that the proposals or the expressions of
interest and the applications meet the criteria that’s laid out as well as
ensure that there is some technical evaluation.
But essentially all, you know, all the
policy decisions and sort of how the governance of the fund is managed would be
the responsibility of the Ministry of Environment.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Thank you. I just want to jump right
in and ask because this is very interesting for me. But before that I should
have just kind of took a little . . . started a little rather than
just going right in there.
So the intent of this fund again, remind
me. I kind of named a little bit about it, but just kind of the intent of the
. . . What’s the intent of the fund?
Ms.
Harvey: — Of the technology fund?
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Yes.
Ms.
Harvey: — So the intent of the technology
fund, it’s really a compliance option for what are considered heavy emitter
organizations. And so as a way to meet their requirements in terms of GHG
emissions, they have the option of contributing to the fund, which then, those
funds are pooled. And there’s an application process for companies to
essentially put together proposals to access that funding to incorporate
innovations in their operations to help them to reduce their GHG emissions.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — I was like, okay I’m . . .
I was following the line, so thank you. You just confirmed what I was already
thinking.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. And no, good question. And
really, just kind of by way of background, so Environment really manages the
policy end of it. But the reason why we are involved is because of the history
and experience that we have in administering application-based programs. So
whether that’s the advantage for innovation fund, you know, there’s a whole
host of them. I referenced a number of them in my opening remarks. But that’s
really why Innovation Saskatchewan is the agency that does the administration.
And really that is kind of our role in it, and it’s because we have experience
and expertise in doing the administration component for application-based
programming.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — So for the expressions of interest
that have already been submitted, the proposals from February 2024, so how many
were submitted? Do you have an idea of how many?
Ms. Harvey:
— Yes, so 20 expressions of interest were received.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — And do those, out of those proposals
do you have . . . You’ve talked about having a criteria. Is there a
kind of a — what’s the word I’m looking for — a percentage that goes to different
criteria funding streams?
Ms. Harvey:
— So in terms of the expression of interest, it’s really . . . like
the first cut really is about just, you know, some fairly limited questions
around, you know, are they actually a regulated emitter, yes or no? Like that’s
kind of the level of criteria that’s used. You know, are they based in
Saskatchewan, yes or no? Like that kind of thing.
When we get to the full evaluation of
the actual proposals, that’s when there is a weighting that’s assigned to various
criteria. But that’s more of a policy-related question that Environment would
be responsible for, for working through with their advisory committee and their
governance process.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — So just with that, so help me
understand how . . . so Innovation Saskatchewan, how you work with
the Ministry of Environment in relation to that. Follow up that with that
question.
Ms.
Harvey: — So just to be, I guess, more
specific in terms of what our role is, so we are responsible for basically
managing the application process and intake periods. We do the initial
screening of the applications, which I spoke to earlier in terms of that
criteria. We would communicate with the applicants about the status of their
expression of interest and their proposal. We’ll administer any agreements with
the successful applicants once those decisions are made. And we are responsible
for general accounting of the fund which includes invoicing and tracking of
compliance payments. So that’s essentially our role.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Good. So how many, like, I guess
what are the sources of funding besides those that are the biggest emitters?
Who else funds, do the funds . . . [inaudible].
Ms.
Harvey: — The technology fund is completely
funded through the heavy emitters putting in their compliance payments.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. And does it vary from year to
year of how much is brought in?
Ms.
Harvey: — Correct.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — So was there an increase or decrease
from last fiscal year to this year?
Ms. Harvey:
— Yeah, it just started last year, and there’s an estimated 25 million
available in the fund right now. But that is projected or it could be projected
to be much higher, just depending on, you know, what the choices are of the
companies in terms of that as an option.
[19:00]
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. So who makes the
recommendations for the funding in relation to this fund?
Ms. Harvey:
— Yeah, that’s the advisory committee.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Advisory?
Ms. Harvey:
— Yes. Like and I think this is more of a governance question as well.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Yeah. It is. So the advisory
. . . You make the recommendation which goes to . . . I’m
just a little bit confused here. I know there’s that relationship you have with
the Ministry of Environment, so I’m like, who . . . Because you’re
not doing the policy piece, you’re doing the administration piece. So at what
point do you, I guess, sit down then and chat about who does what when it gets
grey?
Ms. Harvey:
— Yeah, so in terms of the decision-making process, that would be something
that probably should be deferred to the Ministry of Environment. What I would
say is that there is processes in place and different levels of decision making
that will happen, but those decisions are all managed through the Ministry of
Environment.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. So just to help me understand,
I get the, kind of the complexity of, well kind of, the roles of what you do
and then, where, at what point I guess . . . Give me an example of
what would be just a decision you make, and then what would go directly to the
Ministry of Environment.
Ms. Harvey:
— So after the . . . So the decisions that we would make would be
around the expressions of interest. When the full proposals are completed, at
that point when those are reviewed, those would go to the Ministry of
Environment, go through their decision-making processes. They do have like
various committees set up, and they would probably be in a better position to
explain sort of how those will play out in terms of those decision makings.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — No, that’s good. Thank you for that.
So, Minister, you spoke briefly — I thought I heard you say — briefly about the
technical review committee. Can you . . . And how does Innovation
Saskatchewan relate to it? I believe you did say that, unless I read it here
somewhere.
Ms. Harvey:
— Yeah, so essentially the technical subcommittee is maybe a bit of a misnomer.
The subcommittee is not . . . We actually have an agreement, or we’re
in the process of establishing an agreement with a third-party provider that
will do the actual technical assessments because we need to have individuals
that have, you know, engineering expertise, that can do calculations around GHG
emissions, those sorts of things.
So
that is the, that would be . . . And we are responsible for that, and
we’ll be responsible for that agreement and working with that third-party
provider. So we’re just, we haven’t signed an agreement yet. We’re just in the
process of signing that agreement and then once that technical agreement is
completed, then that’s when it would go to the decision-making group that
Environment is responsible for.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Thank you. And also, so do you have
a dollar figure that’s allocated just for that or is that like just in the
budget? Is there that piece? Because I’ve read in here to try and get a better
understanding. I thought okay, I know that you have dollars for experts that
you need along the way. So how much of the budget is allocated for that expertise
that you may need?
Ms. Harvey:
— Yes. So the way the program is set out and the way that the Act is written is
that there is up to 5 per cent of the fund value can be used for
administration. But what I would say is that we are far beneath what that amount
is. We have an MOU that basically outlines, you know, what costs will be
reimbursed and that total amount. If you just give me one second, I’ll just
. . .
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Yeah, sure, verify that.
Ms. Harvey:
— So it will actually be based on what’s actually utilized, but we’re
estimating about 280,000 in total is what would be required to conduct the
technical reviews.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. Well thank you. So for the
number of approved projects, it says it will be based on available funds. So
looking at the . . . And I again could be going and asking questions
as it relates to Environment so correct me if I’m going there. So just with the
dollars, the budget, so of the proposals that have been submitted, do you kind
of have an idea of what you would expect would be funded based on your budget?
Ms. Harvey:
— Are you . . . Sorry, just to clarify. Are you looking for the total
value, estimated total value of the projects that have been submitted versus
what’s available?
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Yes, yes.
Ms.
Harvey: — Okay. Well what we do know is the
total value thus far does exceed, the value of the projects does exceed the
value of the fund at this point. I believe it’s 51 million is the total
value of what’s been requested in terms of the overall value of projects. And
as I mentioned, there’s 25 million in the fund right now.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. Okay, I’m just trying to
remember I only have an hour. So just in the annual report for the fund for
2022‑2023 there was a revenue of 29 million and no expenses
reported. Could you provide the current revenue and expenses?
Ms.
Harvey: — Yeah, so that would be a question
for the Ministry of Environment to answer. That ministry is the one that
actually collects the compliance payments, so they would be doing the
processing. And what we know right now is no compliance payments have come in
for this year, but they would be in a better position to be able to provide you
with projections or even, you know, what their understanding is of what to
expect for compliance payments, for future payments.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — I know that you’ve said that this
was a new, relatively new fund. You know, it started last year or something.
You were saying that. So from last year, and I don’t know if this is something
I can ask, but I’ll ask anyway. You can tell me if it’s not. Okay. But could
you provide a list of the projects that have been approved and rejected from
last year?
Ms.
Harvey: — The first intake period has just
happened this year.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Oh, okay.
Ms.
Harvey: — Yeah, so there were no projects
approved last year.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. So is there like a projected
time that you’ll find out who’s approved, or is that just with Ministry of
Environment? They would.
Ms.
Harvey: — In terms of the time frame, at this
point we’re expecting sometime in the fall is when decisions will be made
around the project funding.
Ms. Nippi-Albright:
— Okay, so in 2023 the price for emissions was set at 65 per tonne of carbon
dioxide equivalent, a $15‑per-tonne increase over 2022. What is the
current rate? And how is this rate determined?
Ms. Harvey: — That
would be . . . Yeah, that’s a question for the Ministry of
Environment.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Okay. Thank you. No, thought I’d
ask.
Ms. Harvey:
— They’re the ones that would do those calculations, yeah.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Yeah. That’s good. You know, we
talked about the . . . I wasn’t sure. I may have missed the makeup of
the committee or this group that . . . with this fund. Remind me
again who is on the committee.
Ms. Harvey: —
So the Ministry of Environment has set up an industry advisory committee that
has been working with the ministry and ourselves over the course of development
of the fund. The scope, the criteria, all of that has been worked on with the
industry members.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — So remind me again. I read, I
believe it’s in the document, that you had two members from industry. Is that
correct?
Ms. Harvey:
— No there’s . . . On the advisory committee?
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — That’s on the advisory, okay.
Ms. Harvey:
— Yeah. No, there would be, I’m not sure, but there’s more than two members. So
about seven, seven members or so. But they’re all industry representatives. But
the Ministry of Environment is really the one managing the advisory committee.
Ms. Nippi-Albright:
— So just to kind of take it kind of totally in a different area, and just for
my own interest, I know that Indigenous people like to be involved in the
economic reconciliation. So have you and is there ever an interest I guess to
ensure that Indigenous, whether it’s elders, knowledge keepers, would they be
engaged, or is there an intent to engage them down the road as an advisory or
part of the committee?
Ms. Harvey:
— That again would be the Ministry of Environment that that question would be
best posed to because they’re the ones responsible for setting up the
governance, bringing on, you know, those . . . or establishing
criteria, leading those discussions with industry members.
[19:15]
Ms. Nippi-Albright:
— So just kind of back to this particular fund that I’ve just been talking
about here. So what I’m hearing you say
— correct me if I’m wrong — is all that you . . . Innovation
Saskatchewan has no say in the makeup of the board or committee; it’s Ministry
of Environment. Is that what you’re saying?
Ms.
Harvey: — Correct.
Ms. Nippi-Albright: — Okay. So is there a desire or an intention for
Innovation to advise or recommend that engagement of knowledge keepers be part
of the makeup of the organization? Is that something that you guys would be
thinking of going down?
Ms.
Harvey: — Yeah, we
can certainly bring that. You know, I think it’s a really good point, and I
think that that’s something we can bring back as part of our discussions with
Ministry of Environment officials and the advisory committee as well.
Ms. Nippi-Albright: — Okay. So this fund, again when I was reading,
this fund is for the output-based performance standards, right? And not the
other piece, which is Environment. Is that correct?
Ms.
Harvey: — The
output-based performance standards, that is Environment. Yeah, they’re
responsible for that.
Ms. Nippi-Albright: — Oh sorry. I just went ahead of myself here. So
here, I just read in here, the funds obtain funding from two principal sources.
Of course is the compliance payments from regulated emitters, right. And then
the second one is the penalty payments, which is entirely with the Ministry of
Environment. So this piece that you’re talking about is the OBPS [output-based
performance standards] program. Is that correct?
Ms.
Harvey: — Correct.
The other stream that you’re speaking to — the penalty payments — that’s
actually Ministry of Energy and Resources.
Ms. Nippi-Albright: — You’re right. You’re right. Yeah, it’s down
here. Okay. So in terms of economic reconciliation and Innovation Saskatchewan,
is there a plan of moving forward and inviting inherent and treaty rights
holders, stakeholders in being part of Innovation Saskatchewan?
Ms.
Harvey: — So what I
could say about that is, you know, I think that we really do see the importance
of ensuring that our Indigenous communities are included and part of the
technology sector. I mean, you know, from a perspective of I guess percentage
of participation in the workforce currently, what we see nationally is that
Indigenous people make up only 2 per cent of the technology sector. In
Saskatchewan it’s a little bit higher at 7 per cent in Saskatchewan, but we
know that’s still not, you know, that’s still not where it needs to be.
It’s definitely a complex issue in terms
of how do we best encourage participation and engagement in the sector. And it
really starts downstream from an education, you know, education of youth,
encouraging and creating excitement around STEM [science, technology,
engineering, and math] in science and technology. And so really our role
. . . And just to add to that, you know, it’s not Innovation
Saskatchewan’s sole responsibility. There’s a number of other partners and groups
that would, you know, have a role in helping to ensure that we have better
results in terms of participation.
So what we tend to do is look at that
ecosystem development. We have a fund I think the minister would have mentioned
in his remarks called our ecosystem development fund, and we target initiatives
that will help to advance certain priorities, you know, in that space. And so
we’ve tended to really focus on events or initiatives that will support youth
and expose youth to STEM.
So we have, for example, we funded — I
think we talked about this last year — the RoboX program which we think was
extremely successful because not only from the time when we supported that
program where it kind of . . . What we saw happen was that the
organization that’s delivering the program, which is the Saskatchewan Industry
Education Council, they were able to secure federal funding through CanCode to
expand the program even further. And they have been actually quite successful
in even further expanding that program to now include an MOU with FSIN
[Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations] to ensure that the 74 First
Nations have access to these robotic kits.
And some of the stats to date are that
SIEC [Saskatoon Industry Education Council] has trained 3,425 teachers; they’ve
impacted over 66,000 students and 10,000 Indigenous students. And so we’re
seeing some really good results from that program.
And we also have provided direct funding
to STEM summer camps where we provided 42,000 for Educating Youth in Engineering
& Science program, which was a week-long STEM program.
And so from Innovation Saskatchewan’s
perspective, that’s where we’ve really been focusing our efforts in really
trying to create that downstream development and excitement around and the opportunities
that the tech sector offers. You know, some of the highest-paying jobs are in
the tech sector. I think it’s over 75,000 is the average income for jobs in the
technology sector. But even more than that, the opportunity for
entrepreneurship and developing, you know, start-up companies.
So that’s really where we’ve focused,
but some of our funded institutes as well are also looking at ways to engage
Indigenous communities in their programs as well.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — Well thank you. I actually had a
friend of mine who’s a teacher who taught one of those robotics courses to the
students. So when he was telling me about it, I was like, hey, this is
Innovation. So it has been good.
So I’m just cognizant of the time here,
and I’m sure I have one question. So my question, this final question is going
to be around the 94 Calls to Action. We know that it’s been, you know, since
the 94 Calls to Action and the Truth and Reconciliation committee made the 94
Calls to Action, the onus has been on businesses, organizations, governments,
all levels of government to look at incorporating relevant 94 Calls to Action.
So with Innovation Saskatchewan, where if any of the 94 Calls to Action do you
see Innovation Saskatchewan embracing and also implementing?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I appreciate the question; I really
do. And so I’ll maybe start with a bit of a high level statement. Again,
cognizant, I know we only have a few minutes left. Appreciate the questions
overall though.
You know, we’ve had a chance to talk
about it a little bit in some of the other estimates that we’ve done, but
really, you know, we are committed to finding ways within, whether it be
Innovation Saskatchewan, whether it be through Saskatchewan Research Council,
whether it be through Trade and Export, Immigration and Career Training, other
ministries across government.
I can’t speak for all of the other, but
I know from where I sit and, you know, have the honour of being responsible
for, we really, from the very top through our entire senior management team,
are looking for every opportunity that we can find to work with First Nation —
whether it be First Nation governments, with First Nation companies, with
tribal organizations as far as companies if they’re community development corps
— to find ways that we can partner, and find ways that we can really, in a
meaningful way, create opportunity for Indigenous people.
And you know, the Calls to Action I
would say, you know, they’re obviously much more specific than that sort of
broad statement, but I think really what they add up to is a statement as far
as economic reconciliation that kind of gets to that point. So that’s something
that really goes to the heart of what we try and do. And that’s true for
Innovation Saskatchewan as it is across the other departments that I have the
honour of being responsible for. So I’m not sure, Kari, if you want to add
anything, but feel free.
Ms. Harvey:
— The only thing that I would add to that is as I mentioned, I mean we also,
with all of our funded institutes by extension, we do have those discussions at
board level around how do we ensure that we are looking at those Calls to
Action and ensuring that we have initiatives that advance, you know, our
efforts in that area.
But I would also just mention that the
other thing that we are doing is just as an organization ensuring that our own
staff understand what the Calls to Action are. It’s a part of our training, our
mandatory training when we have new staff come on board. And so just by
creating that understanding so that there’s that lens that we are all looking
through as we do our work, you know, in the organization.
The
Chair: — All right. Having reached our
agreed-upon time for consideration of these estimates, we will now adjourn
consideration of the estimates for Innovation Saskatchewan. And, Minister, if
you have some closing remarks you’d like to make.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Just very briefly. Thank you very
much for the questions, good questions and good discussion. And I want to thank
as well, through our senior leadership team here, thank you to all of you, but
through you to our entire team in Innovation Saskatchewan for the work you do
every day. Appreciate it.
The
Chair: — Ms. Nippi-Albright, if you have some
closing remarks you’d like to make.
Ms.
Nippi-Albright: — I just want to say thank you so much
for taking the time to answer my questions. And it’s always so interesting to
hear about what Innovation Saskatchewan is doing, and in particular for our
young people out in the community. So thank you again for taking your time to
answer my questions. Thank you.
The
Chair: — All right. We’ll just take a brief
recess to change officials and committee members if need be.
[The committee recessed for a period of
time.]
[19:30]
General Revenue Fund
Immigration and Career Training
Vote 89
Subvote (IC01)
The
Chair: — All right, welcome back, committee
members and minister. Next on our agenda this evening is consideration of the
estimates of the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training. We will now
consider vote 89, Immigration and Career Training, central management and
services, subvote (IC01).
Minister Harrison, if you want to
introduce the officials that have joined you here. And I ask that the first
time officials speak at the mike they say their name and their position as
well, and Hansard will turn on the mikes for you. So, Minister, begin with your
introductions and your opening remarks.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Great. Well thank you very much,
Madam Chair. I appreciate it. And again, thanks to members of the committee for
being here this evening. It’s appreciated, and I look forward to the
discussion. And I am pleased to be here today to discuss the priorities and
investments the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training is advancing in
this budget year 2024‑25.
To my right, Deputy Minister Richelle
Bourgoin. I think everybody knows Richelle from previous appearances before
committee. Assistant deputy minister behind me, Darcy Smycniuk; assistant
deputy minister Christa Ross to my left; and three of our executive directors:
Reegan Obst, Jennifer Clark, and Anne McRorie, who are joining us as well.
The ministry’s mandate is to build a
strong and resilient labour market by addressing employer workforce needs,
training people for jobs, and supporting newcomers to work and stay in
Saskatchewan. In 2024‑25 we’re achieving this by making a series of
strategic and innovative investments in programs and services that build and
develop Saskatchewan’s labour force. This year’s budget features
$160.54 million in total expenditures.
A strong workforce is the foundation of
the economy. Last year, capital investment in Saskatchewan increased by more
than 25 per cent to $17 billion. This investment is growing our industries
and creating thousands of jobs.
Recently released data from Statistics
Canada shows that in the final quarter of 2023 Saskatchewan had the highest job
vacancy rate amongst the provinces with 21,800 job vacancies. Saskatchewan
needs to ensure we have the labour force to meet this demand, or we risk
limiting and capping our growth.
We’re already seeing the impact of our
efforts. Saskatchewan’s labour force is growing. The latest labour force
statistics released earlier this month showed the province added 10,500
full-time jobs in March 2024 over March 2023. And with an unemployment rate
that is consistently well below the national average, Saskatchewan continues to
demonstrate our economic strength. In March 2024 Saskatchewan’s labour force
also set several record highs for the month, including for labour force
employment and female and male employment.
This growth is exactly what Immigration
and Career Training, or ICT, is supporting with this year’s budget. In 2024‑25
the ministry will invest in programs that are not only designed to meet
Saskatchewan’s current labour force needs but our future needs as well. We know
Saskatchewan has a bright future, and our government is looking forward,
looking ahead to ensure the province’s workforce is prepared to meet the evolving
needs of industry. As our economy grows we want to make sure it translates to
an excellent quality of life for Saskatchewan people.
In addition to supporting Saskatchewan’s
growth plan goals of adding 100,000 jobs and growing the population to 1.4 million
by 2030, ICT’s 2024‑25 budget also supports the recently released
Saskatchewan labour market strategy. This strategy is a road map to ensuring
Saskatchewan is able to meet the demands of our economy. The strategy directly
supports the province’s investment attraction strategy, which outlines how the
province is increasing investment and further advancing Saskatchewan’s growth
plan goal of $16 billion in private capital investment annually. This
investment drives Saskatchewan’s growth, creating jobs and growing our economy
and creating a better quality of life for Saskatchewan people. However, for
Saskatchewan to attract private investment, we need to have the labour force to
support that growth, which is why the labour market strategy is critical to
that endeavour.
The
labour market strategy has three pillars: connecting Saskatchewan people to
jobs, recognizing skills in Saskatchewan, and international recruitment.
Connecting people to jobs means giving
Saskatchewan people the first opportunity to benefit from our growing economy.
To do that we need to ensure we have the skills and knowledge employers need.
In 2024‑25 the budget includes
several investments for skills training programs and services for unemployed
and underemployed people, including $24 million for adult essential skills
training, which provides the foundational skills that are needed to enter the
workforce such as literacy, numeracy, and workplace writing as skills. This
training provides an essential foot in the door, enabling people to take their
first step into employment.
Twenty-three million dollars for
pre-employment programs and services which provide learners with the basic
skills and knowledge they need to begin applying for jobs, enabling people to
overcome some of the initial barriers to employment.
Nearly $22 million for credentialed
skills training programs delivered through post-secondary institutions which
prepare people for jobs in fields such as construction, health care, energy and
manufacturing, tourism and agriculture, and many more. Through these programs
people are able to directly enter into in-demand jobs in sectors across the
province.
And lastly, the 2024‑25 budget
includes nearly $10 million to support employment programming for people
with disabilities, which ensures our labour force is inclusive and that we’re
providing all Saskatchewan people with the opportunities they need to find
meaningful employment.
The labour market strategy outlines how
the province is investing in programs that address in-demand occupations. As
the province continues to grow, the demand for workers in the construction
skilled trades is on the rise. From carpenters to electricians to plumbers to
welders, jobs in this sector are building the infrastructure the province needs
to support continued growth. To support the increased demand for skilled trades
the province is increasing our investment into the Saskatchewan Apprenticeship
and Trade Certification Commission, or SATCC, by $1.5 million to add 250
apprentice training seats for construction-related trades, including
electrician, plumbing, and welding. This brings the total investment in
apprenticeship training to nearly $23 million. It will increase the total
number of training seats to 4,850.
This year’s budget also includes
programming specifically aimed at Indigenous people and those living in
Saskatchewan’s North to connect to jobs in their own communities. Northern
Saskatchewan is rich in natural resources and economic potential. The ministry
is working in partnership with employers, training institutions, and First
Nations and Métis agencies to ensure northerners have the opportunity to get
the skills and access the training they need to work in these important
industries. For example, this year the province is providing $400,000 to the
First Nations Natural Resource Centre of Excellence to further develop the
Indigenous workforce in the natural resource industry.
Partnerships with organizations like the
First Nations Natural Resource Centre of Excellence, with the first-hand
knowledge of both the industry and Indigenous communities in Saskatchewan,
enable the ministry to maximize our investments and grow the workforce
Saskatchewan needs, while also ensuring it is inclusive of everyone.
The second pillar of the labour market
strategy is recognizing skills that are already in Saskatchewan. Every year
through the Saskatchewan immigrant nominee program and other newcomer pathways,
people come to this province with skills, knowledge, and credentials to
contribute to our economy. But many face challenges in getting those
credentials recognized, stopping them from working in the field in which they
have been trained.
It’s unacceptable to have
internationally trained health care workers, tradespeople, engineers, other
professionals unable to work in their profession, which is why in 2024‑25
Immigration and Career Training is investing more than $850,000 to fully
implement the Saskatchewan credential recognition service to support
individuals with out-of-province or international credentials cut through the
red tape and get to work. We’re offering one-on-one support to people and
helping them navigate licensure pathways. Through this service, the province
will also be working proactively with regulatory bodies to streamline pathways
for credential recognition in Saskatchewan.
Saskatchewan has one of the most
aggressive credential recognition services in Canada — frankly, I think it’s
the only credential recognition service in Canada — putting in place strict
timelines for regulatory bodies to respond to credential recognition
applications. And by investing further into this service, we’re making working
in Saskatchewan even more appealing and accessible.
The final pillar of the labour market
strategy is international recruitment. When employers are no longer able to
find the labour force they need in Saskatchewan, the province is supporting
them to look beyond our province and find the talent they need. This year’s
budget includes an additional $856,000 to support the growing Saskatchewan
immigrant nominee program, or SINP. These additional funds will support the
processing of 7,250 nominations in 2024, which will bring in more than 18,000
newcomers to Saskatchewan between nominees and their families.
Immigration plays an important role in
our economy. And it’s imperative that our immigration program protects
newcomers and employers. In addition to supporting SINP applications, this
funding will also enable the ministry to further enhance program integrity
measures, to protect the SINP, protect employers, and protect newcomers from
fraud and exploitation, and ensure that Saskatchewan remains a top choice for
international candidates looking to live and work in Canada.
As we continue to advocate for more
growth and autonomy over immigration, the ministry is also focused on
supporting employers as they look outside of Saskatchewan to find the workforce
that they need. Recruitment missions both across Canada and abroad help
employers hire skilled workers when all other avenues for sourcing local talent
have been exhausted.
In the last year, the ministry hosted
job fairs in the spring of 2023 in Regina and Yorkton and supported job fairs
across the province. This spring a delegation of officials and employers
participated in job fairs in Toronto and Calgary, with another planned in
Vancouver in June.
International employer-led recruitment
missions held in Warsaw, Poland this past September focused on Ukrainian
refugees, followed by Manila, Philippines in December. The ministry leads employer-driven
recruitment missions in partnership with Saskatchewan’s network of
international trade offices.
All of these missions have led to
employers finding the workforce that they need. As a result of our most recent
international recruitment initiative in Manila, more than 1,000 nominations are
expected through the SINP. This is proof that we’re doing things right.
Employers are finding the workforce they need, and we’re enabling growth for
Saskatchewan’s economy.
Another way we’re supporting the labour
market’s strategy’s focus on international recruitment is through the
introduction of new legislation that strengthens the province’s ability to
maximize the capacity of the immigration system here in Saskatchewan.
The new immigration services Act, which
is before the House at second reading right now, introduced earlier this month,
provides the province enhanced authority to investigate and deter immigration
fraud, provide stronger protections for foreign workers, and enhances our
ability to provide settlement programming for newcomers.
In addition, the new Act will also
repeal and replace The Foreign Worker Recruitment and Immigration Services
Act. This will bring all authorities related to immigration in Saskatchewan
under one piece of legislation.
[19:45]
In 2022, we proposed the Saskatchewan
immigration accord, a modernized agreement with the federal government which
would provide Saskatchewan more autonomy over immigration. And while we’re
pleased SINP has grown since 2022, we are committed to further pursuing other
elements of that immigration accord, although I think we’ve made very
significant progress on very large parts of it. A strengthened immigration
program and increased autonomy will enable the province to better attract and
retain the international workforce we need to support our growing economy.
The labour market strategy also looks to
the future, where the evolving needs of industry and our growing population
will impact our labour force. One of these critical sectors is health care. The
2024‑25 budget includes funding to support the health human resources
action plan by investing $4.1 million for training and settlement supports
for in-demand health care occupations. The health human resources action plan
or HHR plan outlines a four-point plan to recruit, train, incentivize, and
retain health care providers and steadily grow Saskatchewan’s health care
workforce.
The 2024‑25 budget furthers this
important strategy by investing $2.3 million to support training seats for
continuing care aides, licensed practical nurses, and medical lab assistants.
These positions all play important supporting roles in our health care system
and ensure Saskatchewan people receive the care that they need. Growing the
province’s capacity to train for these occupations will ensure our workforce is
able to keep up with growing demand.
ICT’s investment into HHR priorities
also includes $1.8 million in credential recognition supports. These
supports include settlement programming, such as language assessments,
training, and exam fees. As I’ve said, recognizing credentials in the province
is critical for Saskatchewan’s labour force to meet the demands of our employers.
This is especially true in the health
care sector. We’ve heard too many stories about medical professionals trained
elsewhere in Canada or abroad who aren’t working in their fields because they
can’t get their credentials recognized. Often we’ll hear two reasons. It will
either take too long or take the required courses to get licensed, or the
process is too expensive. This investment will help address both scenarios to
ensure more health care workers already living here or planning to move here
are able to work in the fields in which they have been trained.
Streamlined and accelerated assessments,
training, and licensure pathways as well as settlement programming for
internationally trained health care workers are all supported through this
targeted HHR support.
In addition to the highlights I’ve
already noted, ICT’s budget continues to support core programming and services
that ensure Saskatchewan employers are able to train, recruit, and retain the
skilled workforce that they need to support investment and economic growth.
To do so the ministry offers a suite of
programming for both employers and job seekers. Through our SaskJobs lines of
service, underemployed or unemployed people can access support from career
development experts either online, on the phone, or in person at 10 SaskJobs
offices across the province. There people can get support with job searching,
job matching, career planning, and of course get connected to our program
delivery partners across Saskatchewan.
SaskJobs services also include supports
for employers, from helping employers determine workforce needs to labour
market information to connecting them to funding to support training. SaskJobs
is available to help enable employers to find and develop the skilled workforce
they need.
The number one barrier to growth
identified by employers in Saskatchewan is the lack of an available labour
force. By investing in programs that support the Saskatchewan labour market
strategy, ICT is ensuring that we have a workforce that will help us realize
our full potential. Guided by the strategy’s three pillars — connecting people
to jobs, recognizing skills, international recruitment — ICT’s 2024‑25
investments are creating a labour force that supports the province now and into
the future.
Seeing record investment, more jobs, and
more opportunities, ICT’s 2024‑25 investments ensure that all
Saskatchewan people can benefit from the opportunities provided by our growing
economy, ensuring this province is the best place to live, work, and build a
life.
With that I would say thank you and look
forward to questions.
The
Chair: — All right. Thank you, Minister. I’ll
open the floor to questions now from committee members. And I’ll recognize Mr.
Burki.
Mr.
Burki: — Okay.
The
Chair: — It’s on.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you,
Minister, for your detailed presentation and gives us a full view. Thank you
for the hard work that you’ve been sitting since what time, I don’t know. That
is incredible job you’re doing and . . . Well it’s hard. And thank
you to the minister.
I’m very, very pleased that
. . . In immigration, when I was getting any kind of cases of
frustration among people, that they’re delayed, thank you for all the help that
you have provided us. Thank you to all the executive directors for all the hard
work that you guys doing, and it’s amazing. And really appreciate that while
preparing for today’s committee meeting.
Thank you, my colleagues on the other
side, MLAs [Member of the Legislative Assembly]. Thank you, my colleague Betty
here to support me. It’s my first meeting over here in the committee. Might be
a little bit nervous, but I will drink water after each and every
. . . [inaudible] . . . So thanks to the Legislative
Assembly staff over here as well. Thank you for all the support, for all the
help that you guys been giving us. Thank you.
So I believe this ministry or your
ministry is responsible for labour market planning. Can you please provide me a
quick summary of the labour market needs currently and for the next number of
years?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — So I’ll maybe ask Darcy to go
through maybe a bit of a detailed summation and maybe talk about some of the
process for how we work with our partners and work with some of the
data-gathering organizations on making labour market projections, which really
do inform how we do a lot of the investments for job training, whether that be
through apprenticeship commission, whether that be through our Polytechnic, how
we actually allocate that. So I’ll maybe give a bit of a high level summary
around a bit of that and then turn it over to Darcy.
But it’s a very good question. It’s a
very good question because it’s an important one. We put a lot of work into
making sure that the investment that is made is going to reflect the labour
force that we need right now, but also the labour force that we’re going to
need in two years or four years or six years. Because really, given the lead
time on some of the training programs that we have in place, that is how far
out you have to project when you’re making investments, including in this
budget.
So that really means that you have to
have a very good understanding as to what sort of jobs are going to be required
given investments that are being made right now. So BHP, for example, obviously
making one of the largest investments in the history of the country. I think
it’s the second-largest investment in the history of Canada, largest investment
in the history of their company. Obviously they’re going to need hundreds of
employees that are going to be prepared to work in jobs to actually have an 8.5‑million-tonne
mine operational over the course of the next number of years, and they’re going
to need these employees that are prepared to step into those roles.
And not just BHP. So you add that up
with Mosaic and Nutrien and some of the other potash companies and layer that
on top of the other investments into the mining sector, it means that at the
end of the day, right now we need to be funding more seats in the skilled
trades. We’re going to need more electricians. We’re going to be needing more
mechanics. We’re going to be . . . So that is really was the
catalyst, even for an additional in-year investment that we made into the
apprenticeship and training certification commission to add seats.
And we had a multi-year plan to add
additional seats through our apprenticeship and training certification
commission. We announced additional seats as a part of this budget. There were
additional seats last budget in the in-year addition of seats as well.
And that all really is based on labour
market assessments from our partners, using data as well from, you know,
organizations like StatsCan. But really we try and work with our employers so
we have a very clear understanding of exactly how many positions they’re going
to need for certain jobs. And they have a very clear idea as to what their
future labour force needs are going to be.
So we do that work. We bring that
together, and that really is a big part of how we determine funding envelopes for
post-secondary institutions, SATCC, and other mechanisms by which we deliver
labour market training or programming, including from adult basic to more
high-end sort of training.
I’ll maybe leave it there, but Darcy can
talk about . . . This is a really interesting area, and I’d really
commend the work the ministry does on this because it’s not always easy. There
is an art to it as much as there is a science. But over to you.
Mr.
Smycniuk:
— Okay. Thanks, Minister. Darcy Smycniuk, assistant deputy minister. So maybe
just to add a little bit of detail to the minister’s comments. When we look at
labour market planning we’re looking at this from a number of sources both
internal and external. So we will rely on data sources from Stats Canada;
there’s a number of different sources. The labour force survey is one of the
key ones that we do; that comes out on a monthly basis. The survey of
employment and payroll hours, employment insurance statistics, job vacancy and
wage survey reports.
We also look at local and sector-level
intelligence gathering that we do directly with industry associations around
the province. The Sask chamber, Economic Development Regina, the chambers in
Saskatoon and around the province are a big part of the information that we receive
and return to them in terms of some of the analysis that we do.
There’s internal data sources. Our
saskjobs.ca function is a significant source of data for us in terms of doing
some analysis around what the labour market is performing at in terms of job
vacancies and by sector and by industry.
We’ll look at other surveys that Stats
Canada does with respect to a survey on business conditions and the CFIB
[Canadian Federation of Independent Business] reports with respect to their
analysis.
We produce a five-year labour demand
forecast on future trends as well, which I’ll speak to in a second.
And then information from the
post-secondary system as well is a significant source of input into our
understanding of the program response to some of the labour market trends that
we’re seeing.
On
the construction side, BuildForce is another significant input into some of the
work we do around planning for the construction trades workforce and the
investments that we intend to make through apprenticeship and other skills
training programs.
One of the important indicators that we
track with respect to the labour market is the labour market tightness
indicator, and that is really a definition of low unemployment and high demand.
That ratio in Saskatchewan has been hovering around 1 to 1 for about 24, 26
months now. Historically in Saskatchewan that ratio was around 3.4 unemployed
persons for every vacancy. So that gives a bit of an indication of exactly how
tight the labour market is.
The labour force survey that’s released
on the first Friday of every month is demonstrating sort of record numbers with
respect to employment and labour market participation across the piece at sort
of the aggregate levels, but also for males and females and off-reserve
Indigenous folks in the labour market currently.
Some of the other things that we’re
seeing with respect to the labour market is a bit of a change or shift in terms
of the context of the labour market. We’re seeing differential impacts by
certain sectors. Some of them are evolving due to innovation. Some of these
trends that we identify were under way pre-pandemic and they’re being
accelerated in terms of the opportunity for digitization and automation. And
that’s being some of the sectors that, say, historically have not been
impacted. Manufacturing and our energy sectors have been very quick adopters of
the technologies, but we’re seeing some of that impact in some of our other
sectors now, like hospitality.
Demographic shifts in the province are
also significant contributors to some of the work we do around labour market
planning. There’s no question that, you know, we’re seeing the boomers finally
starting to leave the labour market, and we’re projecting that the last of the
baby boomer generation is going to actually exit out at 65 years of age in
2031. So we’re going to see that accelerate for a little while yet. We’ve also
seen other folks who are leaving the labour market making different choices,
accelerated pace of exits, and those kinds of things.
But you know, on the positive side of
things, like I said earlier, we have an off-reserve Indigenous population
that’s at employment record levels here in the province currently.
So demographics, geographic location of
the workforce is also something that we look at with respect to, you know, are
there available workers where the jobs are and where the investments are being
made? Are they in the occupations and industries that we need to hire, and do
we have the right skills in that workforce?
And I think the final point I would make
just is around competition for talent and that’s something we’re monitoring.
We’re seeing competition, not only within sectors but across sectors now within
the province, and then competition for the same talent nationally and internationally
so it is really global competition for talent.
The labour market outlook document that
I referenced forecasts a total of 136,000 job openings over the five-year
period from 2022 to 2026. Of those, about 63,000 of those opportunities are due
to economic growth or expansion and demand in the province, 73,000 due to
retirements. So replacement of the workforce. All major industries in
Saskatchewan are expected to have a net increase in job openings over that
forecast period, with largest gains being expected in the agriculture and
forestry sectors, health care, social assistance, education, retail trade, and
construction.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Minister and Deputy
Minister, Assistant Deputy Minister for stepping in to the long-term and short-term
estimation. It’s great, amazing.
My next question will be running into
. . . Your government claimed that unemployment rates are low, but
there are thousands of people still receiving SIS [Saskatchewan income
support]. That doesn’t include the number of the people receiving income
supports that live on reserves. What are you doing to get those folks into the
workforce so they can contribute into the labour market need?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I appreciate the question. And you
know, kind of specific to the income support portion, I know our colleagues in
Social Service would be happy to answer that. But what I think is really a good
and pertinent question is about engagement in under-representing groups into
the labour market. And you know, it was a big part of the labour market
strategy and there was a lot of significant consideration that went into it.
And you know, we talked about it in our last discussion and a couple of
discussions before about really how it is always an essential direction that we
look for ways to make sure we are engaging under-represented groups, but
particularly Indigenous Saskatchewanians and . . . to be into the
labour market. So that was a major component of what we were looking to do
through the labour market strategy.
And I’m maybe going to ask one of our
team as well to maybe talk a little bit about the elements and the labour
market strategy and beyond. I mean, we didn’t put everything into the labour
market strategy that we’re doing in that regard, but about the work that has
been done on engaging Indigenous people into the training systems, whether that
be through the essential skills component of our program delivery.
You know, a very significant component
of our essential skills financial allocations is actually delivered on a
reserve. And we made a decision to do that a number of years ago where, you
know, there are other jurisdictions where jurisdictional issues really
complicate how some of these programs are delivered. We made a policy choice
that, you know, there are not illegitimate jurisdictional questions around some
of these things but that we would deliver provincial programming on-reserve
when it came to labour market training because it was the right thing to do.
And we allocate, you know, a significant component of our essential skills
training directly on-reserve. I think it’s probably about half as far as the
adult basic education training allocation.
But I will let Darcy, are you going to
. . . Darcy, maybe speak to this one in more detail. Good question.
Mr. Smycniuk:
— Sure. Again, thank you for the question. You know, I think we have a
continuum of programs and services that are available to individuals who are
underemployed or under-represented in the labour market. That continuum ranges
from access to the 10 career services SaskJobs offices that we have located
around the province, where they can access a variety of services from job
search and resume-writing services up through career counselling for programs
and access to programs and services for specialized employment services.
A lot of those folks that are coming
through our service are persons with disabilities, and those may be a little
more marginalized in terms of having access to the labour market. Right now
we’re looking for every way to activate the entire population of Saskatchewan
in terms of making sure that they’re prepared for the opportunities that are
here today and the ones that are emerging.
The workforce development programs
provide access, you know, direct services for . . . [inaudible]
. . . counsellors. In our own operations, we contract with a number
of organizations and CBOs [community-based organizations] around the province
to provide those specialized services as well. We have a number of different
programs that are supporting this — targeted initiatives for older workers,
self-employment programs are part of the mix. We make significant investments
with SIIT [Saskatchewan Indian Institute of Technologies] for their career
centre operations. They had over 6,000 clients come through their service array
last year.
And you know, with respect to our
Indigenous training folks, you know, we’ve got a significant collaboration, as
the minister outlined, with our post-secondary training partners for essentials
skills training in the province. That’s a $24 million investment. About 60
per cent of the learners that come through the essential skills programs — and
it’s an array of programs, from basic essential literacy development right up
through the acquisition of your grade 12 — about 60 per cent of those learners
are Indigenous, and about 60 per cent are also female. So we’re looking at
programs to make sure that they have access to those foundational skills that
they need to make sure they have access to those jobs that exist today.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you,
Minister, and thank you, Assistant Deputy Minister, for taking those in
consideration. Because when people have jobs they are
really more happy, more beneficial to the economy. Less stress, less mental
issues because they’re engaged in the community. Thank you for that.
It looked like that there has been a
reduction in funding for ICS this year as compared to last year. The comparison
of figures, if I say, last year was 164 million and this year is
160 million — 160.5 million. Can you confirm that, Minister?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. No, it’s a good question. And
there were a couple of changes to the budget which I think at the end of the
day really don’t have a major impact as far as the ability to do training
programs, but there was a federal transfer that was concluded. It was a COVID-era program
that was called Skills for Success that the federal government had sunsetted
the funding on. So that was really a big part of the reason.
Another part was on the internationally educated nurses. We had
allocated resources for a longer training program than ended up being
necessary through the HHR plan. So kind of a good thing in that we didn’t have
to spend as much on it to put the same number of folks through and get
credentialed in a shorter period of time. So those were really the reasons for
it.
What we did do is allocate additional resources though within the
budget through our credential recognition office. So that was a significant new
initiative within our budget, nearly a million dollars that we are adding over
and above what we had been doing already, but really we have reorganized within
the ministry to set up a credential recognition. We call it the credential
recognition service, but it’s really a branch within the Ministry of
Immigration and Career Training to do this work.
And I kind of offhandedly referenced in my opening comments that we are
the only province in Canada that really does this. We actually presented to the
Forum of Labour Market Ministers a few months ago in Winnipeg. It was January
or February, I forget when it . . . yeah, kind of walked through what
we were doing. We weren’t able to publicly announce it yet because it was a
part of the budget deliberation process, but through that
organization, federal-provincial-territorial ministers, which meets quite
regularly to really share best practices.
And this is how and why most of the
other provinces in Canada have copied our foreign qualification legislation.
And I fully expect . . . I mean, I’m happy that they’re doing it, but
I fully expect you’re going to see other provinces in Canada move to setting up
separate organizations within their labour market departments or ministries as
the case may be, to really pursue very specifically credential recognition.
So you know, we’re really pioneering
this, and you know, I’d said in kind of the earlier estimates, in Trade and
Export, you’ve probably seen signs up around the city of Regina. You would see
them in Saskatoon. I haven’t been to Moose Jaw and Prince Albert but I think we
have the same product that is up in those communities as well. And really what
they come down to is saying, if you have a credential or a skill that you’ve
obtained from outside of Saskatchewan or outside of Canada and you want that
credential or skill recognized in Saskatchewan, call us. And the idea being
. . . Not just the idea. What we are going to be doing is working,
and are already, individually with folks who have a credential that they have
obtained from outside of Saskatchewan, to get that credential recognized.
And this can be really a daunting
process. I mean, you well know. I mean, this is a very daunting process for
newcomers, especially newcomers to Canada who have a skill, obtained it outside
of the country at an institution, you know, that may have a slightly different
way of training than an institution in Saskatchewan. It’s a daunting process to
try and actually get that credential recognized.
So we want to really cut out what would
be a very challenging process for newcomers or for those from outside of
Saskatchewan or in other parts of Canada, to really cut through that and have
people who are dedicated to working with our regulators and with our newcomers
to make it happen, to get to yes, to find a way to make sure that our newcomers
to Canada or newcomers to Saskatchewan are able to attach to the labour force,
enter the labour market at the maximum capacity that they have, based on their
training.
But that really, you know, is going to
be a major undertaking as far as a reallocation of resources within the budget.
We put significant additional resources into administering The Immigration
Services Act as well. And I’ll maybe not get into all of that right this
moment, but I’m sure we’ll have a chance to talk about some elements of that if
not here tonight, then when we do committee stage of the bill as well.
But you know, we put very significant
resources into our immigration program in addition to what already had been
significant resources to address these two items, so good question.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you,
Minister, for your detailed explanation for that. The question I asked, I was
just a little bit worried it might be . . . will impact our immigration
programs, this budget, but eventually if we are saving money, it’s great. But
if you’d said that this is the protocol of COVID, might be in COVID we were
using some money extra for extra things, but if it is not affecting, that’s
great.
I’m the critic
for Immigration, a person of colour. People come to me a lot for different
concerns. I believe that in your office will got a letter from my office about
credentials, which is great and I appreciate for that.
So what are the implications of this budget
reduction so there will be no implication, any kind of fact on this one that we
reduced the budget?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — On the federal funding component, on
that part of the program?
Mr.
Burki: — Well overall that it has gone from
160 million to . . . from 164 to 160.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, I mean the federal funding
reduction, so that program is just sunsetted, is basically what happened on
that one.
Mr.
Burki: — Okay.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — You know, one of the things that’s
interesting about this ministry is, because a lot of the actual program
delivery is done by partners, you actually end up with significant variation
between years about basically how the contract systems all work with these
things.
So I’m not the kind of subject matter
expert in how that’s all administered, but that’s one of the differences than
you would find with some of the other line ministries in government is the
significant reliance on partnerships with third parties to do program delivery.
So I think that was a part of the other component of the funding reduction on
our internationally educated nurses which I’d referenced, because our partners
who are delivering the service actually — and Sask Poly, that does the program
delivery — there had been . . . And this is really quite a win, I
would say, as far as the credential recognition component.
[20:15]
The bridging program that had existed
initially for internationally educated nurses was around . . . I
think it was a two-year bridging program. You know, obviously for nurses,
whether they’re trained in Philippines or, you know, the United Kingdom or I
mean places which have very good training for internationally educated health
care providers, there was still . . . Because of the way the regulator
had structured the ability to have your credentials recognized in Saskatchewan,
it was a two-year bridging program.
So I mean, our view was that that was
not a reasonable proposition, given the fact that you had been a fully
accredited nurse in another part of the world, understanding that there are
some elements that need to be learned in the Saskatchewan system, but it
doesn’t take two years.
So we worked with the regulator on that,
and Sask Poly worked with the regulator and worked with ICT and worked with the
Ministry of Health and the SHA [Saskatchewan Health Authority] about what a
reasonable bridging process and time frame would look like and how that program
could be delivered by Sask Poly.
So where we ended up landing, you know
. . . This was not overnight. There was a lot of work that went into
this, but we got to a 14‑week program, which is really quite a remarkable
thing to go from a two-year required bridging program to a 14‑week
program, to have a foreign-trained, internationally educated nurse be able to
enter into our health care system, providing care for Saskatchewan people.
So I really take my hat off to all of
those involved in getting to that time, but what we had actually budgeted
through the health human resources plan when it was put together was predicated
on the much longer training program, which obviously would have cost
significantly more than a 14‑week program.
So that’s one of the reasons why you end
up with a lower budget, is because of the fact that we’re actually doing things
more efficiently and it doesn’t cost as much. So you know, you have different
elements of that with third-party contract providers, or third-party delivery
options. And we’re always seeking to work with our providers to find
efficiencies and better ways of doing things, which allows us then to do
reallocations into the department on high-priority initiatives.
So that was why I kind of went to the
additional resource allocation for whether it be The Immigration Services
Act or — what was the other 900,000 we put into? — sorry, there was another
initiative which I had referenced which slipped my mind after four hours of
committee. But anyway that’s kind of the long answer to the question.
Mr.
Burki: — Well thank you very much for that.
So when we bring in the workforce from abroad, like I do understand that nurses
came from Philippines, which was the short-term solution that we got out from COVID and a lot of
burden was on our health care. So do you have any planning in the long term
that we can have to invest over here locally?
I can give you one example just from my own family. One of my
daughters, she is down in Toronto university. She is doing biomedical physics.
The other day she was telling mom that, “when I do my Ph.D., I will come and
work in Regina.” And I was listening to them and said, “why you will come to
Regina?” And then she said, “Dad, Mom makes very good food.”
So our kids like this place, and it doesn’t matter if everybody wants
their child to want to stay with them. And I guess in long-term solution that
will be great so we can retain more people over here and interest over here in
the long term.
Hon. Mr. J.
Harrison: — Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And you know, I would say that this
scenario where a lot of thought has been put in by our senior team in making
sure that, you know, we have the right processes, we have the right
. . . we’re asking the right questions as well at the front end of
going through the recruitment or immigration process to really make sure that —
you know, we have a limited number of spots in these programs — that those who
are making application, coming through the process, you know, have an intention
of residing or at least, you know, hoping to reside long term in the
jurisdiction here that they’re relocating to.
So I’ll maybe ask one of our team to talk about maybe what some of
those actual structural changes have looked like within the ministry. One
observation I would add, and it’s really been kind of through first-hand
experience in how we have really been pioneering in a lot of ways some of the
recruitment globally, and what really has worked has been employer-led
training.
So you have your employer-led recruitment who, you know, really have a
clear idea as to the number of positions and what positions they want to hire
for, have work that’s been done in advance where they have applications from
folks. Like you know, we did this in Warsaw and we did this in the Philippines
and, you know, our intention is to do this in other jurisdictions beyond that.
That would include India. That would include Vietnam. I think we are giving
consideration to and working through some details on that as well.
By
having your employers with you, understanding what they need, having done the
groundwork in advance, and employers who we have worked with to make sure that
at the other end the settlement component to that is in place — which really is
a hugely significant part of long-term outcomes is having front-end settlement
in a good spot — and also as a part of that, having officials with the
employers able to really do some of the interviewing and the processing part of
it face to face, it makes a difference. It really does.
And
so I’ll maybe ask Christa to maybe speak to how we have been doing that. But I
think increasingly what you are going to see is a larger component of our
entire program being processed, recruited, worked with in that way. Because I
think it does lead to better outcomes and better retentions.
Ms.
Ross: — Thank you for the question. Christa
Ross, assistant deputy minister. So you asked specifically about health, and
certainly there’s a comprehensive and aggressive health human resources action
plan by government. So we support that work along with colleagues from the
Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Advanced Education. And we’re looking at
all options in terms of developing the labour we need and the skills locally,
as well as outside of Saskatchewan and then outside of Canada as well.
So to the example or the family member
you mentioned, I know we’ve talked a lot already about credential recognition
services, and most of us probably think of international or foreign credentials
first. But the office is also set up to support labour mobility within Canada
because there are, there continue to be barriers, whatever the regulated
occupation may be.
There isn’t necessarily an automatic,
streamlined process to have your licensure move from one province to another
province. So we do provide a service and supports for labour mobility applicants
as well, so that would help nurses or whatever the health profession may be who
might be looking or working elsewhere in Canada to be able to come to
Saskatchewan and get to work as quickly as possible.
So the credential recognition service,
just to go into a bit more detail than what the minister has already shared, it
is a relatively new service that we’ve set up over the past year and with a
pretty ambitious marketing campaign. We are starting to see an increase in the
number of individuals who are reaching out to us seeking that service. So for
the most part, it is individuals who are already in Saskatchewan and have
mostly been here for a number of years and are looking to have their
credentials recognized.
But we are also seeing some traffic
coming from other parts of Canada, and some of that was generated or motivated
by some of the job fairs we recently attended. So I think in the minister’s
opening remarks he mentioned a recruitment fair or job fair we attended in
Toronto and Calgary. And actually we had somebody from our credential
recognition services office there in person to answer questions.
And I think he was probably the most
busy just for individuals who had already immigrated but again were still
facing barriers or unsure of a way forward in terms of having their credentials
recognized. So generated quite a bit of interest from other parts of the
country as well in the service, and looking for opportunities to come to
Saskatchewan and work.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you.
It looks like that the labour market program budget is down from
130.9 million to 127.2 million. Can you confirm that, Minister?
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison: — So no, appreciate the question. So yeah, we just
looked over the subvote (IC04). So those were really the components that we had
talked about before. And there was an addition in that one on the SATCC
funding, so it balanced out to, with the reductions that we had talked about
already on the Skills for Success and some of the reductions on the HHR plan,
because of the efficiency, that’s why it came out that way.
Mr. Burki: — Thank you. Government consistently speaks to the
need to be responsive — which is great; I will say that — to the need of the
student community and labour market, yet you are still cutting funds from the
labour market program. Can you please explain that?
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. No I think we had kind of talked about
maybe a little bit just on the details on the subvote on (IC04) and why that
is. You know, one of the additional components we made though was around the
labour market plan that we had put forward. And you know, that really kind of
encapsulates a lot of different elements of whether it be (IC04) or whether it
be some of the other subvotes and, you know, the different elements that went
into the development of the plan.
So I’ll maybe talk just a touch about
that because we, you know, I think have canvassed in some degree of detail kind
of the pillars of what we are seeking to do through the labour market strategy.
But you know, one of the real things that we work hard to do and it’s
. . . I talked a bit about this in the Trade and Export Development
estimates. But there’s a very close relationship, obviously, between
Immigration and Career Training and Trade and Export Development that goes
beyond just kind of sharing a minister. You know, there’s very much a
relationship that has to be, and is, very close because of the fact that we
have different elements that directly impact both parts of the ministry. So we
work really side by side in the creation of the labour market strategy and the
investment attraction strategy because they go together in so many very real
and substantive ways.
So that means, you know, working with
our stakeholder groups, whether that be our chambers of commerce, whether that
be our like Hospitality Saskatchewan. There is, you know, a very long list of
third-party groups who are industry representatives or, you know, businesses
and others that had really identified when we were coming out of COVID that
they felt we were going to have a significant labour market challenge.
And it was not something that we, you
know, probably at the very start of COVID expected we were going to see but,
you know, Darcy alluded to some of the challenges, I think, of the shrinking labour
market pool that came out of the pandemic where you had folks who were leaving
the labour market probably a few years earlier in some cases than would have
been expected, and that really led to a very apparent tightening in the labour
market elasticity.
So we ended up with, you know — Darcy
talked about it — the 1‑to‑1 vacancy-to-unemployment ratio, which
is about as tight of a labour market as you could find. And that happened
pretty quickly. We had thankfully been doing some work on that in advance and
planning, but that was, you know . . . Part of coming out of that was
the genesis of working on a labour market strategy.
[20:30]
So you know, where that all ended up
landing was, you know, the major effort being on ensuring that those who are here
in this province have first opportunity to take advantage of jobs that are
being created, really engaging under-represented groups into the labour market.
And that means, you know, significant focus on Indigenous people and on those
with disabilities and finding ways that we could pathway these folks into the
labour market. And I think, you know, we’re seeing results from that. We’re
kind of seeing them month to month that they are really quite positive.
And then of course on the credential
recognition piece, we talked about a bit. And on the recruitment part, which
you know, I think we’ve had a bit of a discussion as well.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Minister. Well saving
money is always good for family, for government as well. The more money you
save, the more we can do. But I’m just worried that whatever we are reducing
money, our amount in . . . Especially I can see a reduction in
essential skill training and I can see in pre-employment programming services,
skill training program. In the budget there is a reduction in all of them.
If you think that it is an optimal
solution that we are getting the same benefit that we were taking in last
year’s budget, with less budget we are achieving our objective, that’s
perfectly okay with me. But if there’s anything else that reduction is
impacting, any of the training, then can you please brief me about that,
please?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. No, I appreciate it, and I do.
And I think we’re not losing capacity. I think we’re probably gaining capacity,
and for the reasons we talked about.
One of the areas where, you know, there
has been significant additional investment into has been around the
apprenticeship and training certification commission. And there are a variety
of reasons for that, but one of the, you know, and I think it got some
attention, but it was actually really quite a significant in-year adjustment
where we added beyond the seats that had even been planned to be added and
beyond what we had even allocated in the last budget, over and above that. We
were able and in a position to add more resources.
So maybe I’ll have . . .
Darcy, do you want to maybe talk about SATCC and just kind of what the
implications of that are and the significance of the additional seats being
added?
Mr. Smycniuk:
— Thank you, Minister. You know, I mentioned earlier that there’s a significant
demand for construction and skilled trades in the province. And this is where
our work really does closely align with the investment attraction strategy.
We’re working very closely with the Ministry of Trade and Export Development
along with other ministries and Crowns and government to identify early where
those projects are going to be located in the province, understand the size of
the workforce they’re going to need and the requirements that they’re going to
have, the sequencing of those projects, and doing a bit of a forecast in terms
of what we need to do in terms of apprenticeship-related training or skilled
trades training through our regional college system for pre-employment
apprenticeship.
So last year we made an investment for
250 seats. We have increased that again this year by another 250 seats, and at
the end of the fiscal last year added an investment that would load in another
100 seats. So that’s a 650-seat lift in the apprenticeship training system year
over year.
We think that capacity matches the
existing demand to make sure that we have a skilled workforce in line with the
timing of the projects that are coming online. And that in conjunction with the
two-and-a-half-billion-dollar investment we made through the college system
last year to do pre-employment skilled trades training, which has been
maintained this year, we’ll make sure that we have access to another 200 to 250
training seats for individuals interested in a variety of skilled trades for
the system.
Mr.
Burki: — Okay, thank you very much. Just to
confirm that this direction that we can see will not be losing job opportunity
that we are forecasting?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, I would say that, no, I don’t
think we’re losing any opportunities. The reality is that, you know, we do have
a labour market challenge on our hands in that we have a shortage of folks in
particular areas, and we talked a little bit about that earlier today. But
really I would say there is an economy-wide challenge. Some of these sectors
probably have more acute issues, and it is, you know, a bit of a movable thing,
depending on a variety of factors.
But you know, that really has been the
focus though, is how can we allocate resources such that we are going to be
able to fill the jobs that are being created right now in the economy. And that
means the very large investments into the mining space, into the energy space,
into the ag tech, ag value-added space. You know, a lot of these are highly
dependent on those with trade certifications. Not just and only that, but that
is really where, you know, we had seen and do see a challenge in front of us,
so now adding more resources into that space.
Also, you know, the international
recruitment part of this is not to be underrated. You know, we have had really
quite a remarkable success in a couple of the international recruitment
missions that we did where employers who were a part of the mission, they had a
well-defined target for what they were seeking. And there was one case there
were, I think eight welders, one of our companies — a well-known company here
in Regina; I won’t name who it was, but a well-known company here in Regina —
they wanted to find eight welders. Well as it turns out, they came back with 16
welders. It was, you know, really very successful for them.
And it wasn’t that they didn’t want to
hire welders from Regina. It was simply that there were not enough people to
actually fill the jobs that they were needing to fill to actually deliver the
orders, which are ever-increasing from their business around the world. So that
really is what’s driving the international recruitment component to this.
There was another, a very large employer
here in the province with a number of different sites across Saskatchewan. I
think they were looking to hire 10 or 12 mechanics, and they ended up hiring
about double the number of mechanics that they were hoping to hire, which, you
know, really for them is a huge benefit. But it wasn’t, again, because they
didn’t want to not hire mechanics from Saskatchewan or from other parts of the
country. They just couldn’t find them.
So those are going to be initiatives
which we think have been successful. And you know, these are often companies
that are quite sophisticated, so they have understandings of what settlement
outcomes and success look like and how to create the conditions for long-term
attachment to both their company and to the province. And this is going to be a
part of how we make sure that our retention rates are higher.
And so you know, these are really
positive partnerships that are going to benefit companies. They’re going to
benefit the province. They’re going to benefit everybody across Saskatchewan.
So that really is what I see as a win-win-win, and that’s why we’re going to
continue on the international recruitment part for those gaps that we just kind
of can’t fill here in Saskatchewan.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Minister. In 2022‑23,
I see that from the annual report that we’re over 8.2 million website
visits to the saskjobs.ca, which is a huge hit on that site, and the total of
182,187 job postings. What does this say about the need for the labour market
program in this province?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, I mean it’s been very
successful, our SaskJobs website. And maybe just kind of a bit of a backstory
on SaskJobs as well because this is a site that we put significant resources
into as a province because it’s worked and it works for employers. Our employers
like the website. I think our job seekers are familiar and like the
functionality of it as well.
There was actually a circumstance 8 or
10 years ago, yeah, where the federal government — actually I think it was
about eight years ago — the federal government actually basically tried to get
provinces and territories to all use their national Job Bank system by
financially incentivizing provinces to become a part of it. And there were a
number of strings that came along with this which happens with the federal
government, you know, bearing gifts I guess.
What it all boiled down to was the
national Job Bank, they wanted to rebrand with the SaskJobs logo and say that
that was the Saskatchewan national Job Bank website. As it turns out, it never
worked. It was basically impossible for our employers to use, and there were a
whole bunch of reasons why they really, really didn’t like it.
So we ended up basically saying, we’re
not going to use your federal website. In fact we’re going to put additional
money . . . And we put significant, like millions of dollars into
making sure that our SaskJobs website has maintained functionality for our
employers and prospective employees of those employers over the course of the
last 8 or 10 years.
So I’m not sure if the federal
government are still trying to get PTs [provinces and territories] to do that.
Probably. Sounds about par for the course for them. But we are not going to be
using the national Job Bank website.
And that really has resulted in the
success of that site. So 8.2 million visits in ’22‑23. I would
actually suspect it will be higher this year. I don’t know if we have data for
that or not. It will be published at the appropriate time. I think as of last
week there were about 14,000, 14,000‑ish jobs, and I’m not sure what it
is today.
But it’s really a functional site. It
works well. And you know, we work with our employers carefully, closely to make
sure that they appreciate the functionality and it’s as user-friendly as
possible.
So I’m not sure; I think, Darcy, you
wanted to talk about SaskJobs?
Mr.
Smycniuk: — You know, Minister, maybe I’ll just
add a couple of things here.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Sure.
Mr. Smycniuk:
— In 2023 we had nearly 7,700 employers registered to use the saskjobs.ca
system. And they posted over 170,000 vacancies over that year, which was the
highest year we had on record.
In ’23‑24, so the current year —
this is to the end of February — we had again about 7,600 employers registered
on the system, tracking again to 170,000‑plus job vacancies being
advertised.
So at any given day we’re probably
averaging about 14,000 job postings.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — So I would add to that as well it’s
a part of how we do our labour market baselining as well. You know, it’s really
quite a valuable source of real-time data about where we have gaps in the
labour market, and it feeds into the other data that we have that, you know,
might not be quite as time sensitive.
But it’s a part of that matrix that you
asked about in your first question about how do we do both short-, medium-, and
long-term labour market planning and resource allocation based on that. So
SaskJobs is a not insignificant part of some of that data that goes into making
some of those decisions as well beyond the actual day-to-day use of the
website.
Mr.
Burki: — So just to
confirm for me that the saskjobs.ca, this website is taking a posting from each
and every company worldwide or from throughout the country? Or it’s just
restricted under the umbrella of Sask province?
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. Yeah, both.
Mr. Smycniuk: — Yeah, thank you for the question. These are
Saskatchewan employers who are posting on the system, but we do have people
looking for those jobs from all over the world really. I think in March of ’24
we had 55 per cent of the visits on the site were from people in Saskatchewan
looking for work, 36 per cent were from the provinces or territories in the
country, and 9 per cent were from international locations.
Mr. Burki: — Thank you. Your annual report acknowledged a
referral from Social Services indicating in 2022‑2023 ICT employees met
with 2,213 Social Services clients to create an action plan to support their
career development goal and connection with the labour market. It states that
of 563 clients whose action plans were closed, 52 per cent went on to
employment and 30 per cent continued with further education.
These numbers
look good, but why were only 563 action plans closed out of 2,213 clients’
records. What happened with the rest?
[20:45]
Ms. Bourgoin:
— Thank you very much for the question. Richelle Bourgoin. I’m the deputy
minister.
When we’re talking about the clients
that haven’t successfully completed those action plans, there’s generally a
number of reasons. In some cases they’re still ongoing. Life happens for
individuals while they’re in progress and working through that program. Perhaps
their spouse has a job in a different community. They have a child that takes
them out of the labour force for a period of time. Health concerns.
In some cases our clients aren’t
prepared to transition through that work plan. Perhaps there’s a mental health
or physical health illness that requires them to then seek service back through
our partners in the Ministry of Social Services. And so it is very probable,
and certainly hopeful, that we’ll see them return to our system again, but we
do not conclude the action plan until they have successfully completed the
program.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you very, very much. It’s very
hard to do whatever you want, but I do understand that. Thank you for that.
I note that budget support employment
for a person with a disability in the last year, we have the same funding as we
have for this year. I understand that the SAID [Saskatchewan assured income for
disability] caseload at Social Services has been going up significantly.
Do you not think that it’s important to
increase the employment opportunities for people with a disability? And I think
the minister talked about that. But I was just having some thoughts about that,
if you have the same funding we are increasing or what?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah. No, I appreciate that and I’ll
probably ask the team to maybe speak to a little bit of our individualized
approaches, or the approach to persons with disabilities.
But one of the kind of overarching
things to take into account with labour market programming is components of
labour market programming are provincial resources. Other components are
cost-shared resources with the federal government, and there are individual
. . . There are transfers from the federal government that are
allocated very specifically for different envelopes of labour market training.
We report them back to the federal
government. Those are based on long-term agreements, so there is not variation
year to year. There is on occasion, but it will be when there’s a change in the
relationship or contract with the federal government on that.
So the way that persons with
disabilities funding, much of it, you know . . . We have components
of this that are provincially funded, of course. But what might be showing up —
and I’m sorry; I don’t have the exact figure that you’re looking at in front of
you — but there had been, as a part of the way the federal transfers worked, it
dedicated allocation for persons with disabilities. It’s now a part of the
overall LMDA [labour market development agreement], right, the LMDAPD that
rolled in.
So again, even more context I guess. The
way the federal transfers work, there had been originally four different
transfers that the federal government had set up. They were deeply complex and
they were, from a reporting and administration context, really quite a nightmare.
We’ve been allocating for well over 10 years that they needed to be rolled into
more manageable and sensible envelopes. But there had been four of them at one
point. There was a labour market transfer agreement, there was a labour market
development agreement, there was a targeted initiative for all the workers, and
there was a labour market development for persons with disabilities.
So the envelopes that kind of were
allocated were rolled into the labour market development and labour market
transfer agreements. So we only have two now, but there still exist these
categories that had been independent stand-alones before. So the federal
funding in these things — well there’s actually an LMDA top-up as well, without
muddying the waters even more incomprehensibly — but these are agreements we
have with the federal government. So they have an allocated and dedicated
amount that’s put into them, and we often will have additional parts of that we
put into it.
And a lot of these kind of programs are
delivered by third parties as well. We don’t do all of the program delivery.
But as far as persons with disabilities, I will ask Richelle, if you want to
. . .
Ms. Bourgoin:
— Yes.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Okay, yes.
Ms. Bourgoin:
— Thank you very much, Minister. And so it is our hope when individuals enter
those programs that they ultimately obtain an employment outcome or the
opportunity for additional training that would better suit them to achieve
their career goal.
And so a good outcome would not be to
maintain the status quo for individuals that are enrolling in those programs.
We want to make sure the programs are tailored in such a way through our
community partners that the individuals in the programs achieve the outcome
that they’ve intended to achieve and have the supports that they do. At that
point they would typically move either into employment or into employment where
accommodation can be made to support them and there are other avenues for
funding available.
So that would be where you would see the
provincial disability strategy, for example, come into play to be able to
support accessible workplaces, for an example. At the same time, while I think
it’s 9.893 million is dedicated specifically to employability assistance
for people with disabilities, that does not exclude the participation of people
with disabilities in any number of our other labour market programs, as we’re
very confident that we have the tools in place to be able to ensure that those
individuals who are participating in the program have that pathway to
employment. Really going back to that first pillar of our labour market
strategy, to ensure that all Saskatchewan residents have barriers removed to
ensure that they are participating fully in the economy to the extent that they
are both willing and able to do so.
And so there is a suite of programs and
services that really are designed to serve that. And the outcomes that we see
from this funding envelope are largely positive, thanks to the really terrific
work of our partners in the communities that are delivering those services.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, and I would just reiterate
that. I mean there are partners who do program delivery but also businesses
that are just very, very open to finding solutions. And I think they view it as
win-wins as well, right. I mean they’re getting good employees, and it all
works out very well.
And so the kind of whole backstory to
how the labour market programming is delivered — I think I might have talked
about it a number of years ago — but I really view this as kind of an analogous
circumstance to how immigration programming is going to develop. And they’re
both within the same file.
But labour market programming had, up
until the mid‑1990s, been duplicated in function by federal and
provincial governments who both had separate ways and separate avenues for
labour market programming to be developed.
What happened in the 1995 federal budget
is the Government of Canada really at that point made a unilateral decision to
just say . . . well there was support, I think, for this from
provinces and territories in the aggregate. But they said, “We’re out. We will
transfer you through dedicated transfers.” And there were at that point, I
think, two of them. “You PTs then deliver the labour market programming. You’re
closer to your labour market. You understand the needs better.” It was the
right decision. It was.
I’m a little worried that we’re seeing
some backsliding on that overall approach. Sorry, I haven’t actually had the
chance to talk to my team what was in the federal budget today, but there was a
degree of concern that the feds might be moving away from that.
Ms. Bourgoin:
— They were silent, Minister. So we don’t know.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Okay, well we’ll take that as a win.
So really, you know, the case that we
have been making, and we’ve made this case at both the Immigration minister’s
table and at the labour market table, is that the devolution of labour market
funding to PTs has resulted in better outcomes. Whether it be for persons with
disabilities, which deputy minister had just spoken to; whether that be for
other under-represented groups in the labour market, Indigenous people; whether
that be for newcomers — you have better outcomes through a single delivery mechanism
with a better understanding being closer to labour market and employers.
Same case we’ve been making with
immigration; why provinces and territories are better positioned to actually do
the selection component because we have a closer attachment to newcomer
communities in our provinces. We have a better understanding as to how we’re
going to get better settlement outcomes in communities and understanding how
labour market attachment, and even things as granular as regulatory processes, is
going to translate for newcomers to have credentials recognized.
So I really think that, you know, we’ve
seen this right now. The federal government have been reluctant to
characterize, I think, what they’re doing, quite how they are doing it. Which
is a recognition that that’s probably the right argument, that provinces
probably are better positioned to actually deliver selection, particularly on
the economic front, on immigration.
We want family class as well. That was a
part of our immigration accord we submitted. The federal government will not
provide that authority to any province or territory right now, and I want to be
very clear about that. We have requested that authority. Quebec won’t even, has
not even . . .They haven’t received that authority through their
immigration accord either.
But I think there will come a day where
basically provinces will do the vast majority, which we already do in
Saskatchewan, the vast majority of processing of immigration, but it’s because
of the size of our program relative to federal streams. But I think ultimately
it’ll get to the place with most PTs. So that’s really an analogous situation
though to what we saw in the labour market with the devolution of funding
historically by the Government of Canada to PTs.
Mr. Burki:
— Thank you, Minister and Deputy Minister. So I will just move to another area
of my critic, that’s full-time equivalency and salary. What were the total
salary dollars for the ministry this year as compared to the last year? And how
many staff do we have?
Ms. Bourgoin:
— So in 2023‑24 we had a total of 264 FTEs [full-time equivalent] at the
Ministry of Immigration and Career Training for a total salary of
$20.274 million. In 2024‑25 we had a total number of 273 FTEs. So we
received an additional 9 FTEs in this year’s budget, and those are primarily
supporting the credential recognition service as well as the immigration
program more broadly.
Mr.
Burki: —
Were there any laid off?
Ms. Bourgoin:
— No.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you. I note that there has
been significant increase to support nomination through the Saskatchewan
nominee program, as the minister talked about that. And for the fraud detection
in this program, was there a spending increase for additional staff?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I’ll maybe actually let the team
speak. I’ll introduce that by saying, yeah, we’re going to be adding additional
resources to the immigration program. You know, there for a variety of reasons.
And partly it’s because we’re transferring some of the responsibilities that
had previously been in another ministry into Immigration and Career Training as
well. But I’m not sure. Richelle, if you want to speak to that, or Christa?
Ms. Ross:
— Sure. Thank you for the question. So the additional resources are going into
what we are calling a program compliance branch. So that’s essentially the
branch that is going to be responsible for administering and enforcing the new
immigration services Act that was just introduced last week. So we’re expanding
our capacity there in order to be able to effectively administer and enforce
that new legislation.
And as the minister said, two of those
incremental positions are actually just a transfer from the Ministry of Labour
Relations and Workplace Safety as responsibility for the existing foreign
worker recruitment and immigration services Act has transferred from LRWS
[Labour Relations and Workplace Safety] to Immigration and Career Training. So
they had two dedicated positions for that Act, so those resources came along
with responsibility for the legislation.
Mr.
Burki: — Has there been a change to the
salaries in training or employment training services?
Ms. Bourgoin:
— So the salaries within the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training?
[21:00]
Mr.
Burki: — Yes.
Ms. Bourgoin:
— So they are part of the overall Public Service Commission compensation
package, which would be consistent with other ministries and agencies across
the public service.
Mr.
Burki: — Okay. It seems to me that you
increased the staffing for immigration support and fraud detection, and reduced
the staffing for training and employment services. What is then the difference
of that?
Ms. Bourgoin:
— So in training and employment services, we have moved some of the resources
that we’ve had support typically in the past as part of an organizational
restructuring to be able to better position the ministry as a whole to respond
to the three priorities in the labour market strategy. So we didn’t reduce any
jobs, but we may have changed the scope of people’s roles.
For example, we opened an office for the
first time specifically designed to support Indigenous services and the
northern economy related to opportunities in the North. And so we’ve shifted
some of the focus, but we haven’t changed the overall footprint. In fact we’ve
increased it.
Mr.
Burki: — Okay. Okay. Thank you, Deputy
Minister. About immigration, what is the status of immigration agreement with
the federal government?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — So there’s a number of components to
this. I’ll maybe speak to the immigration accord that was proposed. But there
are several other almost day-to-day relationships that we have with the federal
government when it comes to what is an area of shared constitutional
jurisdiction on immigration.
So we had put forward in 2022, I think,
the immigration accord proposal, which sought an increased number to our
provincial nominee program. Firstly it was an increase. We’ve seen an increase
to the PNP program subsequent to that, not quite to the level which we requested.
And there’s still some moving parts on all of this. And I think frankly there’s
a bit of confusion on the part of the federal government about how they’re
going to be allocating PNP spots within the overall system. So that will be a
point of discussion.
We have an FPT
[federal-provincial-territorial] meeting with the federal minister and other
provinces and territories in about a month, and this will be a primary area of
discussion. So there’s kind of that element on the allocation, but we have received
a commitment to a significantly higher allocation.
There was an element that we had asked
for, control over the selection component on economic migration. Federal
government have made some not insignificant changes to how selection is done,
which has given provinces and territories significantly more authority over the
selection component, you know, which goes to the earlier discussion we had had
around provinces being better positioned to do selection. Because I think we
are closer to our labour markets and have a better understanding of what is
going to lead to successful outcomes for newcomers, really with an aggregate
benefit for everybody. So that was one part of it.
We had asked for control over the family
class of immigration as well. The federal government are deeply resistant to
having family-class selection given to provinces and territories. That is
probably their line in the sand on a lot of things. But I think ultimately that
will end up maybe not in a straight-up policy change but in a de facto sense. I
think more of that will happen over time through design changes within PNPs or
criteria within PNPs that allow for different allocation of points and those
sort of things. So that was one part of it.
The other thing which I really think is
central and will happen eventually is going to be the transfer of settlement
funding. This is an area where I think there is an undue amount of potential
deportation, not always in practice but you end up with situations where
right-hand-left-hand scenarios are not entirely aligned. We’re fortunate in
Saskatchewan in that we have a fairly small number of settlement organizations
that do a lot of the work. So we kind of . . .
It’s a pretty small world in that we
know each other and can have discussions about what is being provided by one
level of government or what’s being provided by the other to try and avoid
duplication. But I can assure members that in some other jurisdictions that
maybe, you know, have larger populations, more providers, there are real issues
on duplication of service.
So I think having the settlement
services devolved through provinces and territories to partner with third-party
delivery organizations, again like labour market programming, will provide
better outcomes for newcomers than having federal and provincial with different
contractual relationships. So that was kind of what we had proposed. So we’ve
gotten, you know, significant traction in large parts of that. And I think even
on the settlement funding part, there’s a recognition on the part of the
federal government that that’s probably an argument that makes sense. But
they’re getting there. They’re getting there. So we’ll keep pushing on that
one.
As for, you know, the more formal structured
relationship between PNPs, provincial immigration department, what had been CIC
[Citizenship and Immigration Canada] . . . I forget what the acronym
is now. But I mean we have, you know, very regular communication. There are
formalized processes for changes to different PNP streams, which we do quite
frequently to respond to labour market demands, changes, those sort of things.
But I’m not sure . . . Maybe,
Christa, do you want to speak to some of that? Because it is kind of one of
these areas where you do have joint constitutional authority over a single
subject that, I mean, I think by and large works decently well. But you end up
with differential outcomes because you have, you know, for example, I think our
processing times now at the front end for our PNP process are three, four
weeks. It depends on the stream.
But you know, it’s relatively short,
whereas you had the actual admission part of it, which is the federal
constitutional responsibility. This takes years — years — which is obviously
very frustrating for newcomers who have made application through PNP. You know,
we can provide the nomination and then you’re kind of in a limbo waiting for
. . . It was four years at one point I think for different streams to
have the actual admission part of it done by the federal government. I think
it’s a little better now, but it’s not great.
So over to you, Christa.
Ms. Ross:
— Sure. Thank you, Minister. So just a bit more context I guess around the
structure to your question. We do have an agreement with the federal
government, the Canada-Saskatchewan Immigration Agreement. It was signed in
2005, so it’s a fairly dated agreement. There have been a few attempts over the
years at renegotiating that agreement.
Most recently, as the minister
mentioned, we presented our Saskatchewan accord in 2022, modelled closely after
the Quebec Accord. And while we haven’t really seen IRCC [Immigration,
Refugees and Citizenship Canada] come to the table on that proposal, we’ve
certainly made some progress outside of that as well in terms of how we work
with our federal colleagues.
A couple of specific examples I can
share with you is there was this long-standing issue of, again a case of
duplication where, you know, under this agreement we have the ability and the
authority to operate. The Saskatchewan immigrant nominee program gives the
province flexibility to design different categories and streams that align with
our labour market needs and priorities. And it’s an economic immigration
program.
But we found ourselves dealing with
duplication when we would set that criteria; receive an application; determine
that application meets criteria and that they will meet a labour market need or
fill a labour market gap; approve them for nomination, which allows them to
apply to the federal government for permanent residency. And then IRCC would
assess that same application on their ability to economically establish in
Saskatchewan.
And I can remember at one point in the
history of the program where that was actually a fairly prevalent issue we were
dealing with, where we were seeing a higher level or a higher rate of refusals
by the federal government for individuals that we had assessed based on the
criteria that we had developed, because they didn’t feel that that individual would
be able to economically establish in Saskatchewan. So that’s been a sticking
point.
And I’m happy to report that we’ve made
some progress there. And so we have agreement from IRCC, the federal department
responsible for immigration, that they will no longer look at ability to
economically establish with provincial nominees.
So you know, that’s just one example of
how, even though we haven’t formalized a new agreement, we’ve still made some
progress on how we work with them. But under that agreement we do have to work
with the federal government on the design and implementation of any new streams
or pilots, so we can’t do that completely independently. But we have a really
good working relationship with them, so it’s very collaborative.
And again that’s a relationship that
has, I would say, matured and evolved over the years as well, where I’d say
there’s a very high level of trust from IRCC in how we’re operating the
program. But again they set the overall immigration levels. They set the levels
and allocations across the country for provincial nominee programs, and so we
have a certain amount that we can work within.
So that’s the agreement and more
operationally how we work with IRCC. There is, you know, more formal
federal-provincial-territorial Forum of Ministers Responsible for Immigration.
Minister Harrison is actually the provincial Co-Chair right now, and we are
hosting the provincial-territorial secretariat for that for the next three
years. So there is kind of more of a formal governance, formal FPT
collaboration and some structure to support that. So that’s the group that the
minister mentioned will be meeting in Montreal next month.
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — Yes. Thanks, Christa, for that. Just
a very good explanation. You know, one of the challenges we have had is around
that levels question, and I alluded to it a little bit in the last answer. But
you know, this has been really a moving target with the Government of Canada
through multiple governments, frankly. I mean there is a legislated time frame
in which the levels plan had to be released, and there were always questions
whether it would actually be released on time. Sometimes it wasn’t, even when
it was legally required to be.
So we, you know, historically had
encouraged the federal government to do multi-year levels planning, which they
finally got around to, and then they’ve changed it all again in that their
three- or four-year multi-year levels plan lasted for one year and then
entirely changed. And now I’m not actually sure what they, if they have a
levels plan right now.
So well this is what the FPT
meeting in May is going to be all about. And I would say, as well, this is kind
of a multi-partisan frustration with the Government of Canada in that every
minister of immigration in the country has the same challenge of basically
trying to run a provincial nominee program not entirely sure what your
allocation of numbers are but also then trying to allocate resources within. So
we’re working to clarify this with our federal counterparts.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Minister, Deputy
Minister. Thank you for your detailed answer about that. Sometimes when I think
about how our students coming from abroad. They spend about four years. They
pay their tuition fee and they invest time over here. In four years it’s a good
time of duration that they can learn language. And when they graduate they have
to go to different co-op and different kinds of jobs, and they develop work
ethics as well.
And it is sometimes like very
frustrating for some students when they do one work permit, and they can’t get
a job in the industry where they graduated from, especially if I talk about IT
industry. We don’t have a really big IT industry over here like say Ottawa or
somewhere else like Microsoft. We don’t have. And especially people in oil
engineering, like petroleum engineering, we don’t have a lot of industry over
here. They can’t get a job over here.
They’re very well qualified. They can be
a good resource over here in the labour market as well. After 9 months or 10
months that they can’t get a job, they will have to leave the country. Is there
any way that we can utilize those people over here? Because they are ready
made; we are not investing any money on that.
On family sponsor nominee program or
SINP program, when the family comes they will come as husband and wife. Might
be both of them will be not up to the level. They will still be draining money
from our economy. They will go to Open Door. They might go on social services.
They have children.
[21:15]
To bring a person at the age of 50 that
they will be able to speak or learn
English, it’s going to be very hard. So these are the . . .
[inaudible] . . . that we have, why not we have to utilize them so
that we can fill the gap of shortage of our labour market?
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison: — Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And you know,
maybe I’ll talk a little bit about the student part of it first. So you know,
we have . . . There’s been actually a lot of kind of attention
nationally paid to some of the changes the federal government had made with
regard to the number of temporary permits that were going to be issued for
students. And I think, you know, in Ontario as an example, it probably is going
to be a 50 per cent reduction, right, in the number of permits that are going
to be issued. There’s a reason that impacted disproportionately Ontario and
British Columbia.
And I would
say that there is a reason why that really is likely not going to have a
significant impact if any impact in an substantive way on Saskatchewan. And
it’s because our post-secondaries really have been quite, very responsible
about how they have built and grown their institutions to be really quite
cognizant of making sure that international students are going to be in a
position to be successful through their academic period and also then into a
labour market period post.
You know,
there have been some really terrible stories that have come out of other
jurisdictions. And there’s probably some here too where, you know, much less
proportionately but it’s because of the really very large increase in temporary
student visas that have been issued by the GOC [Government of Canada] based on
submissions from post-secondaries in other jurisdictions.
So we really
are fortunate not to have that same issue that exists in some other provinces.
But you know, what we really do seek to do though is make sure that those who
are graduating, those who wish to stay here are going to be able to do that
through our provincial nominee program or through a federal stream if that’s
what they choose to do.
But I’ll maybe
ask Christa to speak to this, but of those who go through our provincial
nominee stream, there are a very high proportion that have been here in a
temporary context prior to actually going through the SINP process. And a lot
of those have been students. So we view this as being a long-term sort of
relationship, which is not, I think, the case everywhere.
We want
students who are here on a temporary document to stay here for the long term
and build their lives here. I think the universities are of the same mindset
that they actually see this as being a lifetime sort of
thing not just a four-year “we’ll take your money” and you know, that sort of
thing. So that is a difference I think as to how Saskatchewan has approached
this.
Feel free, Christa.
Ms. Ross:
— Sure. Thank you, Minister. So just in case you are unaware, there is a
student category through the Saskatchewan immigrant nominee program. So it is
designed, available specifically for the intention of trying to attract and
retain international students who have chosen Saskatchewan to study, for all
the reasons that you’ve already mentioned in terms of, you know, they’ve lived
here for a number of years. They’ve completed post-secondary education in
English and obviously would be skilled individuals now. So many reasons why we
would want to try and retain them and support them to find employment in the
province as well.
So I think last year, just to the
minister’s point, about 20 per cent of individuals coming through the nominee
program were temporary residents. So that would include international students
or also individuals who came perhaps through the temporary foreign worker
program first. So 20 per cent of just over 7,000 nominations. We do know that
the population of international students in Saskatchewan is higher than that.
We do see some leaving after graduation, so choosing to find opportunities
elsewhere in Canada.
And we have seen a trend as well for
those who do stay and apply to the SINP, are nominated, and obtain their
permanent residency. But that’s also where we see lower longer term retention
outcomes as well. So even, you know, for those international students, they may
be individuals who studied for four years, worked for a year, applied through
the SINP, you know, got their permanent residency perhaps two years later. And
we are seeing that that’s an area of the program where we have lower retention
outcomes.
Now having said that, there’s lots of
reasons to try and improve that, their employment outcomes and their retention
outcomes as well. And I would just say that any program or support or service
that we offer at ICT would be available to them as well. We don’t exclude based
on residency status.
And I would just contrast that to the
federal government who spends substantially more on settlement services in
Saskatchewan. So they spend about 47 million every year on settlement
services in Saskatchewan, but they don’t provide service to any temporary
resident including international students. So that’s another area that we’re
trying to make some progress on through various channels and FPT forums as
well.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you. I think we have less
time. I have two questions. Just to quickly go with it. That Saskatchewan is at
this time of the year, if I’m looking, we are the most attractive place to
attract people not even from abroad but inside the province as well. Our member
from Lumsden-Morse, he was talking the other day in the Chamber that real
estate market . . . [inaudible] . . . that if you buy a
house in Ontario, in BC, in Alberta, you will see a big difference. Whatever
you can buy for 1 million, you can get it over here for $400,000 very
easily.
If we have a living cost and if we have
that affordability there, still people are draining out of our province. I’m
not saying that we have control on people to stay here. There could be a lot of
reason that they have to. But as far as I can see the statistic, in five years,
40 per cent people drain down from the province.
When we are in good shape, we can
retain. What’s the best strategy we can use to make sure we can retain, reduce
this 40 per cent — if I’m wrong, might be 30 per cent, but at least we have to
reduce that to 10 per cent — to make sure that we can keep them in province?
Hon.
Mr. J. Harrison: — I appreciate that. No, and you know,
our objective, we’d love everybody to stay that came through, you know, whether
it be SINP or federal stream and located here. You know, you’re right though. I
mean the reality is that there’s various reasons why people relocate, and
that’s fair. That’s going to continue to happen.
But what we can do, I think, to maximize
the number of people that are staying here, it really is kind of around
economic opportunity. I think that is really one of the most significant
components to that. So you know, continuing to create jobs, create opportunity,
having in place training programs or credential recognition programs to
maximize credentials obtained elsewhere.
I actually think this is going to be a
competitive advantage we have on the credential recognition office and service
once the message is, you know, out there. And we’ve just kind of started
advertising because we’ve just started the office up, but the message will get
out there that the easiest and best place to have a credential recognized in
Canada is Saskatchewan. And I think that’s going to really lead to a
competitive advantage we have in that space for those who have a credential
they’ve earned from elsewhere.
You know, there are other parts on kind
of the program design element that we are looking at. I referenced a bit of
that earlier, talking about the actual in-person recruitment with employers on
the ground with officials where we’re doing very rapid processing and ability
to actually do face-to-face discussions about what long-term settlement plans
are, and making sure everybody has the information too.
I mean if somebody’s in, you know,
Chandigarh or somebody’s in Manila, they might not actually know all of the
realities about . . . You know, it gets pretty cold here on occasion.
And you know, we want to be transparent about that though. And I think the way
you can be transparent about that is having these face-to-face discussions and
really getting a sense of that long-term intent to reside. So that’s a part of
it. I think that there are a number of things we’ve been exploring internally
as well. We’ve got, you know, a pretty good sense of what leads to good
settlement outcomes. Employers, I think, are getting more experience in this as
well because it is in their interest too. If they’re, you know, providing a job
to a newcomer, it’s in their interest that there’s a long-term retention in
that space as well. So I think employers are gaining more experience and
understanding some of those elements too.
I would be very confident in saying we
are going to see an increasing retention rate. That is going to be the case.
We’re committed to that within the ministry and I think we have, you know,
garnered some really positive insights into what is going to be indicative and
what are the factors that go into a higher retention rate going forward. So
we’re committed to doing that and I think we’re going to see success there too.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Minister. The last
question that I have . . . I have a lot of questions but I’ll ask
only the time frame. I do understand that in past there were a few breaches
that have been to immigration data, and I think your office and yourself must
have taken it very seriously. My question is, what is your plan in future so
these things should not happen?
Ms. Bourgoin:
— Thank you for the question, and most certainly we do take that very
seriously. And so at the time that it happened, it certainly wasn’t something
we would anticipate from within our own ministry. And so we’ve taken a number
of actions specifically related to recommendations from the office of the
Privacy Commissioner around things that we can do in our ministry to ensure
that that doesn’t happen again.
And I’m very pleased to report that, you
know, since that time, which has been more than one year, we have not had
additional occurrences of privacy breaches, really based around how we can most
effectively ensure that our colleagues within the ministry of ICT understand
the responsibilities and the consequences for misusing personal information that
may be available in the ministry as a result of programs that require a high
degree of personal information.
We’ve also enhanced our training, used
some of the technology tools that we have available. For example, in COVID it
was very easy for our team to process immigration applications from outside of
our bricks-and-mortar structure. That is not something that we do anymore. It
builds more of a collegial relationship but also it reduces the risk when it
comes to access to personal information. And so I’m very proud of my colleagues
who are in the room today and the work that they have done to ensure that we do
not have another occurrence within the ministry.
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you.
The
Chair: — All right, thank you. Having reached
our agreed-upon time for consideration of these estimates, we will now adjourn
consideration of the estimates for the Ministry of Immigration and Career
Training. Minister, if you have any closing remarks you would like to make.
Hon. Mr. J. Harrison:
— Yeah. I’d just thank the
committee. Thank you very much for your very good questions, a very good
discussion here tonight. And of course I want to thank our team here at
Immigration and Career Training who do a great job, who are genuinely committed
to the people of this province, I can tell you, and I feel privileged to work
with. So thank you.
The
Chair: — Mr. Burki, do you have any closing
remarks you’d like to make?
Mr.
Burki: — Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you
very much for all the office executive directors for preparing for that. Thank
you for your professionalism. I would say that all the questions were very
great questions answers, and thank you for that. I appreciate to be here, and I
was really nervous that I might be sweating, but I think it went very well.
Thank you very much for all the help.
Thank you, Minister, Deputy Minister, and directors. Thank you very much to be
here today. Thank you.
The
Chair: — All right, thank you, everyone. That
concludes our business for this evening and I would ask a member to move a
motion of adjournment. Mr. Ottenbreit so moves. All agreed?
Some
Hon. Members: — Agreed.
The
Chair: — Carried. The committee stands
adjourned until Wednesday, April 17th, 2024 at 3:30 p.m.
[The committee adjourned at 21:29.]
Published under
the authority of the Hon. Randy Weekes, Speaker
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