CONTENTS
Standing Committee on Intergovernmental
Affairs and Justice
Parks, Culture and Sport Vote 27
THIRTIETH
LEGISLATURE
of
the
Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan
INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS AND JUSTICE
Hansard Verbatim Report
No.
3 — Monday, April 7, 2025
[The committee met at 17:00.]
Chair
B. McLeod: — And good evening, or I guess it’s
afternoon still. Good afternoon. My name is Blaine McLeod, and welcome to the
Standing Committee on Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice.
I’m going to introduce the members
around the table and work to my right and come back around. We have Megan
Patterson and we have Jamie Martens, and then substituting tonight for Racquel
Hilbert is David Chan. And around the table we have as well Darcy Warrington
substituting for Leroy . . . No, for Betty, right?
Darcy
Warrington: —
Correct.
Chair B. McLeod:
— Correct. And then we have Jacqueline Roy, and substituting tonight for Leroy
is Brittney Senger. And so that’s the group of us as committee members tonight,
and we look forward to some really great conversation around the table. We have
a little bit smaller crowd than last week with Intergovernmental Affairs and
Justice, but we look forward to some really engaging conversation tonight.
General Revenue Fund
Parks, Culture and Sport
Vote 27
Subvote (PC01)
Chair
B. McLeod: — So today we are going to be
considering the estimates for Parks, Culture and Sport until 8:30, where we’ll
take a really quick break. But if you need to take a break in between, feel
free to do that. Just don’t all leave us at the same time. We need to keep
quorum here in the building. So Parks, Culture and Sport until 8:30, and
Tourism Saskatchewan from 8:30 to 10:30. So buckle up. It’s going to be a long,
long evening.
We’ll begin with the estimates for vote
27, Parks, Culture and Sport, central management and services, subvote (PC01).
Minister Ross — welcome — is here with officials from the ministry. And I would
ask that any of our officials please introduce themselves before they speak for
the first time. And please do not touch the microphones; the Hansard operator
will turn them on for you when you speak.
So, Minister, if I could ask you to
please introduce your officials, and I’ll invite you to make your opening
comments as well. Thank you.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me first begin by acknowledging the land on which we
are gathered today is Treaty 4 territory and homeland of the Métis people.
I am very pleased to be here this
evening and this afternoon to discuss the ministry’s estimates for the year. I
look forward to our discussion and providing details on the work we do in
Parks, Culture and Sport and how we make lives better for people in
Saskatchewan.
I
am joined this evening by my officials. To my right I have Deputy Minister Greg
Gettle. To my left I have assistant deputy minister of parks division Paul
Johnson. Behind me we have assistant deputy minister of stewardship division
Dan French. We have Pam Herbert, executive director of strategic and corporate
services; Tracy Morey, executive director of sport, culture, and recreation;
Bernadet Hamill, executive director of the Status of Women office; Jessica
Jackson, director of corporate services; and my chief of staff, Elias Nelson.
This
is my first year as Minister of Parks, Culture and Sport. The work we do and
the work I will talk to you about today is possible due to the dedication of
this team that I have introduced to you and everyone who works with them in the
ministry — staff from across the province who are so deeply committed to their
work out in the field.
I
am very grateful for the experience and knowledge of this fine team at Parks,
Culture and Sport and the information that they bring and experience that they
are able to bring to this table tonight. Their guidance has been invaluable and
deeply appreciated in these first few months I have had the honour of being
minister of this portfolio.
These
have not been easy times for our province or our country. A nation that was
once a close trading partner has changed, creating challenges here at home and
around the world. We are all concerned about the impact of these actions, and
our government is working closely with other provinces and the federal
government on a way forward.
This is a time when we are all sharply
focused on the future and what can we do as individuals, communities, and
leaders to support our nation and our people. It is a time when it’s even more
important for government to provide stability and assurance, which is what we
have done in budget 2025.
Our plan delivers new and expanded
programs, provides record spending on health care, makes life more affordable,
and invests in our future. In short, the 2025 provincial budget delivers on our
commitments, provides security for today, and the opportunity for continued
growth and a strong, sustainable future. The theme for the provincial budget is
Delivering for You. It’s a perfect theme, as that is what we do every
day in Parks, Culture and Sport.
Before I get into the details of what we
do, I am going to take a step back and talk about our purpose, about why this
ministry is here and what we offer to the people of Saskatchewan. The Ministry
of Parks, Culture and Sport has a clear mandate. We offer remarkable
experiences that make our province a great place to live, work, and raise a
family. We protect our natural and cultural resources, and we contribute to
Saskatchewan’s economic growth. And we do this through a wonderfully diverse
portfolio.
Our work encompasses museums, provincial
parks, French language, and culture. We protect heritage and our environment.
We strengthen sports, culture, arts, and recreation programs in our
communities. We support small business and community groups, deliver programs
that help make life more affordable, and we help women live safe, healthy, and
prosperous lives.
Now all of these touch on different
needs, and at first you may not see the connections, as the programs and the
people they serve are quite different. Yet they all have one thing in common:
they contribute to our amazing quality of life here in Saskatchewan. With such
a diverse portfolio, there is a lot to talk about. I’m going to focus on just a
few programs that we deliver and provide an overview that can serve as a
foundation for our discussions here today.
Our provincial parks. Since camping
reservations open today, I will start with our provincial parks. With more than
6,500 nightly campsites available in our provincial parks, we have something to
offer for everyone.
Our front-country campsites range from a
small plot of land where you can pitch a tent to full-service sites where you
can park an RV [recreational vehicle] and get water, sewer, and electricity — a
place with all the comforts of home. You can find backcountry locations where
you can hike into the campsite. There are no services and often no cell
service. You are completely off the grid, immersed in nature.
We also offer Camp-Easy. These are yurts
that come with all the equipment you need to enjoy a night at the park. There
are beds and cooking gear, even chairs by the campfire. You just bring sleeping
bags and food. And we have 879 seasonal sites, service campsites that can be
leased for the entire summer from May through September.
While the sites, locations, landscapes,
and services are different, they all have one thing in common: these are the
most affordable vacation options you will find. Whether it’s three nights or
three months, camping is affordable, accessible, and a wonderful way to connect
with family, friends, and with nature.
There is nothing more relaxing than a
night around the campfire, looking up at the sky and seeing the stars and the
Milky Way, unobstructed by city lights. There is also hiking, boating,
canoeing, kayaking, fishing, and a day at the beach. We have parks that offer
golf, inflatable parks, bike trails, and zip lines. And we offer events and
programming like guided hikes and opportunities to learn about the plants and
animals that live in the parks.
For the price of a campsite, you can
create an entire vacation with endless things to do for you and your family.
And if you aren’t into camping, there are many other ways to stay. We have
resorts, cabins, and glamping options available in many of the parks.
Now many people don’t realize that we
have a dual mandate for the parks system. One is recreation, which includes all
the activities I mentioned. And our mandate also includes conservation. We
protect 1.4 million hectares of land across 36 provincial parks and 104
recreation areas throughout the province. They have different ecosystems;
different species; different environments from sand dunes to grasslands to
lodgepole pine and boreal forests. There are lakes, rivers, grazing pastures,
fens, and bogs, and a wide variety of flora and fauna. Our parks are home to
many different species.
And yes, we even have bison at our
Buffalo Pound Provincial Park, which is just west of here. They were
reintroduced to the park in 1972, largely as a tribute to the land where it is
located and the bison that once lived there. Today staff from the ministries of
Parks, Culture and Sport as well as Agriculture help manage the herd, carefully
monitoring their health and grazing patterns, knowledge that helps us better
understand these magnificent animals.
The landscape protection unit, a team
within the parks division, is the primary steward of our parklands. They are
experts in their fields, and their work encompasses a wide range of ecological
activities, from forest health and renewal to restoring native and prairie
grasslands. They help preserve species at risk and control invasive species
which threaten the entire ecosystem.
Delivering on our mandate, on the
responsibilities we have for these public lands, is largely paid through park
revenues, primarily from camping and park entry fees. Our lessees also pay fees
as do cottagers. We also sell parks merchandise, which is a great way to show
your park pride for our parks. The parks division regularly reviews and adjusts
the fees, as visitors have told us they prefer small incremental increases
rather than large increases less often.
More importantly, all fees are invested
100 per cent back into the parks. They help maintain campsites, facilities, and
roads. They support hiking trails, beaches, events and programming, and
recreational activities. They allow us to deliver great services to our
visitors and help pay for conservation work so our parks can be enjoyed today
and by future generations.
[17:15]
Of course affordability is always top of
mind when we look at the rates. And while our costs have gone up, we didn’t
just automatically pass that on to all visitors. This year camping fees
increased only to higher-end nightly and seasonal sites and group camping
sites. Yet even with these new rates, camping at a provincial park remains one
of the most affordable and exciting vacations available. So if you have never
been camping or visited one of our provincial parks, I invite you all to visit.
See for yourself why so many people get up at 7 a.m. for reservation launch to
secure their favourite site and begin planning for the next summer adventure.
Next is the Status of Women office,
which is responsible for matters that advance the status of women. Their
mandate is to support women, to lead and coordinate strategic initiatives that
support women to live safe, healthy, and prosperous lives, and through their
work they deliver on this commitment.
A little less that two years ago the
office worked across government to establish Saskatchewan’s implementation of
the national action plan on gender-based violence. Since then we have invested
millions of new dollars in programs and services that prevent violence, support
victims, and help break the cycle of violence and provide safe spaces where
people can begin to heal and build a new life.
The office launched a partnership with
Shoppers Drug Mart to distribute millions of period products to schools and
shelters throughout Saskatchewan. And they provide grants to community
organizations that work in three areas: prevention of interpersonal violence
and abuse, support for women’s health and well-being, and improving women’s
participation in the economy.
Grants last year include funding to
Family Service Regina to help purchase a van for their young parents’ program;
sponsorship for a community event to raise awareness of human trafficking; an
expansion of interpersonal violence prevention programs in North Battleford,
Moose Jaw, and Prince Albert; and funding to WESK [Women Entrepreneurs
Saskatchewan] and the Black Canadian Women in Action society to increase
support for women entrepreneurs.
Now with a newly minted strategic plan,
the team is expanding their efforts to women and the economy, specifically a
focus on initiatives that help women contribute to the economy as entrepreneurs
and as business owners and explore careers in STEAM — science, technology,
engineering, arts, and mathematics.
The Status of Women office leads work at
a national level. They work closely with community organizations and government
ministries to make certain women are represented and have more opportunities to
contribute to Saskatchewan’s economic growth.
The Royal Saskatchewan Museum is a jewel
in our province, visited by more than 130,000 people last year. It is home to
Scotty, the world’s largest T. rex; an Indigenous gallery that helps us
understand our shared history with the First Nations and Métis people; and
exhibits that expand our knowledge of natural history from prehistoric times to
today.
And of course the Royal Saskatchewan
Museum is more than a museum; it is a leading education and research
institution. The museum’s curators are adjunct professors at the Saskatchewan
universities. They develop research programs that attract grants and collaborations
from researchers around the world. They help to create school programming and
classroom resources that enhance our K to 12 [kindergarten to grade 12]
curriculums, and as experts in their respective fields, their work is published
regularly in scientific journals.
Stable funding for arts and culture
continues with budget 2025. Government invests close to $30 million into
these sectors and another 18 million through SaskCulture from lottery
funds. In the last three years, we have invested $41 million into Creative
Saskatchewan’s feature film and television production grant. And we will invest
a further $10 million this year, funding that supports a thriving and
growing sector, Saskatchewan’s film and television industry.
In the last few weeks I have had the
opportunity to attend a few industry events in the province. One was screening
for a show from HalterMedia called Flat Out Food. We all know that
Saskatchewan produces food for the world. Agriculture is in our DNA. Flat
Out Food explores another part of the story. We are also small-scale
farmers and processors, chefs and creators. People are turning our rich
agricultural roots into local food success stories. More and more of the bounty
we create is staying right here.
I think that most people watching Flat
Out Food are surprised by the size and the diversity of Saskatchewan’s
remarkable foodie culture. And this production was possible because this
government has provided substantial investment into the film and television
industry over the last few years. Personally I’m looking forward to more
screenings over the next year and seeing new productions supported through the
grant.
I will wrap up with three commitments
that we will deliver this year through the funding announced in budget 2025.
Combined they will send millions of dollars to families and communities. First
is the active families benefit. This is a tax credit that helps families reduce
costs for children’s sport, culture, and recreation activities. Starting this
year the benefit will double from 150 to $300 per year per child, or up to $400
a year for children with a disability. The amount that a family can earn to be
eligible will also double from $60,000 to $120,000 annually.
It is estimated that close to 69,000
Saskatchewan families will qualify for the credit in 2025. Participating in
community activities supports children’s mental and physical health and has
long-term benefits as well. Kids who are active in their community do better in
school, and it helps them thrive later in life. Community inclusion is so
important for children, and expanding this benefit helps keep these vital
activities affordable for more families.
The second program that will double this
year is the community rinks affordability grant. Around 580 grants are provided
to communities both large and small each year. The funds help communities buy
equipment and pay operational costs for these facilities, which are often at
the centre of community life.
This year the grant will double,
increasing from 2,500 to $5,000 per indoor ice surface. Overall government
funding for this program will jump to $3.2 million this year. Applications
for the increased grant will open in the winter later this year.
And finally, with $3.75 million in
annual funding, we are launching a new program to fund school playgrounds.
Eligible projects can receive up to $50,000 in matched funding, and we
anticipate around 75 projects will receive funding each year.
Parents and schools work hard to build
safe, accessible playgrounds for their kids. This funding will help make their
job a little easier and get projects completed sooner, and I look forward to
seeing the impact all of these changes will have on our communities.
Now I’ve only touched on a few areas
where this ministry works, and there is much, much more. Our government remains
focused on delivering well-being and a high quality of life for everyone who
calls Saskatchewan home. These new investments in the 2025‑26 budget will
deliver on our government’s commitment to support strong families and vibrant
communities, and they will continue to make life more affordable for people in
our province. And I am honoured to be part of this legacy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you,
everyone, for taking the time to hear about our programs. And I would welcome
any questions that you may have for us.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Thank you, Minister Ross. Appreciate
those comments. And I will now open the floor to questions. MLA [Member of the
Legislative Assembly] Darcy Warrington.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you, Minister Ross. It’s a pleasure for us all to be here today, as you
said, on Treaty 4 territory. Appreciated that acknowledgement.
So I’ve been teaching for 17 years, phys
ed and band and music, so this ministry is really important to me on numerous
levels. I’ve seen the benefit of the arts on so many lives, giving them
enjoyment, giving them reasons to go to school, and the same can be said within
sports. You know, some people don’t have a lot of other options outside of
school to be active, so it’s always great whenever we can encourage that sort
of activity. And as you said through, you know, projects like the rink
affordability and the playgrounds, these are all good places to place our
funding and our resources.
As we go through today, first off thank
you to all the ministerial officials that are here today. We really appreciate
all the work that you do. And to the Chair, thank you for leading this meeting.
We would ask that if there’s any questions that it’s foreseen to take upwards
of four or five minutes that the information requested be tabled and provided
at an agreed-upon time later on.
And when possible, if there’s concrete
questions involving numbers or readily available data, if it could be responded
to in a timely fashion. And if the information is immediately known not to be
available, please indicate so at the earliest moment, and that will allow us to
get through our questions. I know all three of us have so many that we’re
trying to cut them down and make sure that we have time to explore everything
within the ministry. So again thank you for having us today. I’m going to cede my
time to Ms. Senger.
Chair B.
McLeod: — MLA
Senger.
Brittney
Senger: —
Thank you so much. And truly I’m really grateful for the opportunity to be here
today. Thank you so much. Just echoing what Darcy said to the minister and to
all the staff that are here today. You really do incredible work, and really so
grateful for everything that you do.
So with that, I’m going to get into my
first question, and forgive me if it’s a bit stupid. I’m just wondering why the
Status of Women department is under Parks, Culture and Sport?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
So thank you for that question. So my understanding is that it follows the
minister. And it has been under Parks, Culture and Sport for the last few
years, the last six years approximately, but it doesn’t mean to say if the
position wasn’t attached to a different minister that it wouldn’t move into a
different ministry.
Brittney
Senger: —
Great, thank you so much. Now, Minister, I wanted to say also thank you so much
for your response to my letter about the wage department. I really appreciated
that. Noticed that there was a decrease in funding from the 2024‑2025
fiscal year. How does the Status of Women department plan to offset additional
costs that may arise since there is no federal wage minister?
[17:30]
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you, and thank you for the question. This is a difference that is on
paper only. It reflects the fact that certain expenses under the Status of
Women office had previously been overestimated. Under the free menstrual
products program, SaskBuilds provides storage and employee time on an in-kind
basis, meaning that they basically do it for free.
These program delivery costs were
previously overestimated and are now more accurately reflected in this budget
appropriation. No actual change has been made to the Status of Women office,
and we are committed to supporting the Status of Women office into the future.
And I will let Bernadet Hamill offer you more detailed information.
Bernadet Hamill:
— Thanks. Bernadet Hamill, executive director, Status of Women office. And I
apologize, I’m dealing with some laryngitis. So if you can’t hear me I will try
to go on as best as I can.
So yeah, so the minister is correct.
There’s been zero change to the structure or operations of the Status of Women office,
and it’s through the outwork that we do with our partners through the Ministry
of SaskBuilds and Procurement, as the minister mentioned, who provides in-kind
services to help us distribute the products across the province to schools,
transition houses, women’s shelters. In fact we expanded the program this past
year to include post-secondary schools and adult vocational schools.
And it was always a goal of the program
to ensure that it is, you know, delivered in a way that is in a very fiscally
responsible manner. So we really appreciate the work that SaskBuilds has been
able to do to find those savings, and so we didn’t have to ask for as much
money to deliver the program this year. So our budget is really a small change.
It’s a decrease of $16,000 from last year.
Brittney
Senger: —
Great. Thank you so much. I guess on that note I will move into some questions
that I have about the partnership. So first of all, what menstrual products are
being distributed under the partnership? Is it only pads and tampons? Does it
include menstrual cups? Are there junior sizes or just ones aimed at adults?
Bernadet
Hamill: —
So thank you for the question. And when we entered the partnership with
Shoppers, you know, the products are free. And so they are able to give us
products that they provide to us which included a mix of different products. So
that included tampons . . . Forgive me. I’m not schooled into what
all the products are, but it was a mix of different products to be dispersed to
different age groups within that school-age category. So I think they can range
from like nighttime-type products to daytime products to different sizes, from
my understanding. So it’s quite a mix of products.
Brittney
Senger: —
Thank you. Would you be able to look into that further and table that
information for me?
Bernadet Hamill:
— I think I just answered your question. But like to have the inventory
breakdown, they’re free. So Shoppers Drug Mart provides us with those. It’s
actually the Shoppers Foundation for Women’s Health.
Brittney
Senger: —
So, sorry, it’s all products that are available at Shoppers? Am I understanding
that correctly?
Bernadet Hamill:
— I guess the Foundation for Women’s Health, they’re the ones that provide the
products to us.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay.
Hon. Alana
Ross: — Yes, so
thank you for the question. My understanding is that the Shoppers Drug Mart
supplies all of the products. So they choose the products that they are
supplying, and we weren’t part of that decision making. What was the name of
the foundation?
Bernadet Hamill:
— The Shoppers Foundation for Women’s Health.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. Can you table a list of organizations that are distributing these
products? And how did you decide on the locations? Is there anything in
northern communities?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So I’m able to provide you with that information. So we work with school
divisions who work with the schools. So the school divisions work with the
schools to understand the unique needs of each school within their division,
and then they work to provide those numbers through the Ministry of Education.
So officials from the Ministry of
Education who have that relationship with school divisions set that in motion.
And so every school in Saskatchewan — both public and separate, I think, the
Catholic schools and other schools — can participate in the program. And it’s
through the division that that happens.
We work with the Ministry of Justice and
Attorney General to determine the locations of transition houses, from my
understanding, all transition houses that are funded through the Ministry of
Justice and Attorney General — and I think a couple of others as well that
maybe are not necessarily funded by them — as well as through the Ministry of
Social Services to identify the shelters.
And we worked with the Ministry of
Advanced Education, who identified the adult vocational schools and other
post-secondary schools. And yes, they go to the northern schools.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. Can you break down the cost that you’re taking on versus the cost that
the Shoppers Foundation for Women’s Health is taking on?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So Shoppers Drug Mart provides the products free, and when we entered the
agreement with them, the value that was set at that was about $5 million.
The province does not pay for any of the products. They come to us. They are
delivered to us by the Shoppers Foundation for Women’s Health. As I mentioned,
we work with school divisions and the transition houses and shelters and other
schools to then distribute the products out.
So our costs are the cost to send the
products to places. So it would be the cost of courier, Canada Post, that the
Ministry of SaskBuilds and Procurement uses to send the products out. They come
in big pallets. They’re pulled apart. So they go where they need to go, and
that’s the cost that we pay for.
Brittney
Senger: —
Is there a dollar amount?
Bernadet Hamill:
— I don’t have because we’re in the process of annual reporting, and so we
don’t have that number with us here today.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay, and can you provide me that number or table that number once you do have
it?
Bernadet
Hamill: —
So for this particular question we’re just going to have to wait for the annual
reporting process to happen so that we can understand that. So we would have to
take this under advisement.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay, and will Shoppers, will the Shoppers women’s foundation receive any sort
of benefit, whether it’s recognition anywhere or a tax credit, in exchange for
this deal?
Greg Gettle: — Hi. Greg Gettle,
deputy minister with the Ministry of Parks, Culture and Sport. Thank you for
the question. As far as the ministry is aware, there is no tax credit or
charitable credit provided to the Shoppers foundation as a result of their
donations to the program.
Brittney
Senger: —
Great, thank you. Okay, I was very happy to see the release of the DVDR
[domestic violence death review] report. I’m thrilled that the ministry moved
forward with that. I’m wondering what funds are allocated towards implementing
those recommendations.
[17:45]
Bernadet
Hamill: —
So your question is . . . It was the Ministry of Justice and Attorney
General that released the report, and so any questions that you have related to
that, I would defer you to ask the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General.
Brittney Senger: — Okay. Okay, so as
we all know, Saskatchewan has the highest rate of gender-based violence in all
of Canada. It’s more than double the national average. What funds are being
allocated from the Status of Women department this fiscal year to implement the
national action plan to end gender-based violence? And how much of that funding
is coming from WAGE [Women and Gender Equality Canada]?
Bernadet Hamill: — So
thank you for your question. So the national action plan dollar amount for
Saskatchewan is $20.3 million over the course of four years, and it is a
matched funding contribution agreement. So Saskatchewan has to match the
federal funds, which we more than match it. So those funds are distributed to
ministries across the Government of Saskatchewan through the budget process.
Brittney
Senger: —
Great. And then just for some clarification here. So of the 20.3 million,
so you said that the Status of Women department is more than matching it. How
much is the Status of Women department distributing across the various
ministries towards the plan, the national action plan to end gender-based
violence?
Bernadet
Hamill: — Sorry, I may have been . . .
Maybe I didn’t clearly speak.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Let’s just get the question repeated
again because of the noise and interference.
Brittney
Senger: —
Oh, sorry.
Chair
B. McLeod: — That’s fine. And we’ll get it looked
after. Yeah.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. So, sorry, just for clarification — and I’ll try and phrase this properly
— so the 20.3 million from WAGE, how much of that is being spent this
year? And if the Status of Women department is more than matching it, how much
is the Status of Women department contributing? And which ministries is it
being distributed to?
Bernadet
Hamill: — So the match is the Government of
Saskatchewan’s match. It’s not necessarily from the Status of Women office. I
really wish we had $20 million for our budget. No, it’s matched
throughout, across the Government of Saskatchewan and the respective ministries
that are participating, by expanding programs and services and different
initiatives. And I can certainly share with you who they all are. I’d be happy
to.
So in this year is the Ministry of
Justice and Attorney General; the Ministry of Health; Ministry of Government
Relations; the Ministry of Highways; the Ministry of Corrections, Policing and
Public Safety; the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training; and through a
partnership with the Ministry of Justice, also the Ministry of Social Services;
and newly added this year is the Ministry of Education.
Brittney
Senger: —
Thank you very much. Would it be possible to table a list of how much each
department is contributing?
And sorry, I just wanted to circle back
to my previous question. Of the 20.3 million that the federal government
is providing to the Saskatchewan government, how much of that is being spent
this year?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So I can say what we’re to get for this year, for ’25‑26. We are to get
5.658 million from the federal government. And it’s up to each ministry to
set their budget and their plans. And I can’t speak for those ministries
because, as I mentioned, through the treasury board process and through the
provincial budget, they get their annual budgets set.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. So as we know, Saskatchewan has the third-highest rates of human
trafficking in all of Canada, and we also know that the age of grooming women
is now trending towards 11 years old from 13 years old. Education is one of the
most effective steps, if not the most effective step, to preventing human
trafficking, gender-based violence, interpersonal violence, and sexual violence
towards women and girls.
What steps is the Status of Women
department taking to educate youth on early signs of human trafficking,
gender-based violence, and interpersonal violence?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So thanks for that question. This past May the Status of Women office
collaborated and partnered with the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General,
in which period of time there was the development and implementation of an
extensive public awareness campaign to raise awareness and provide a general
education. And this campaign was extremely thoughtfully developed with
extensive engagement with subject matter experts, front-line providers,
survivors, including those who are delivering those services and regularly
engaging with individuals who are targeted, which we know is a range of age,
and it’s very unfortunate.
And so through that campaign, we focused
on three main themes to speak to the survivors, those who are being targeted,
those who are living in it.
And part of the research and unfortunate
realities of having . . . and including having met with some of the
survivors myself who tell us, you know, that they don’t even realize that this
is what’s happening to them. It’s just really hard to even fathom that this is
occurring to them, that it’s not always a stranger situation where somebody is
kidnapped off the streets. They are subjected to this through trusted
relationships with intimate partners — could be spouses, could be family
members, could be friends — and other trusted members within their circle group
who they would trust.
So we know that in order to educate, we
start with awareness because that’s the key to really starting to grab people
to even be able to massage this idea that it’s even happening. And especially
in our province where I think it’s easy to say, no, that happens in really big
cities and in faraway places.
So our campaign included three posters
that were crafted specifically to speak to the survivors, and they’re available
free to download on the Status of Women office website. And so the one poster
is, “We see you, we believe you.” And it’s through the consultation with
organizations that support survivors that we heard that people being trafficked
often feel invisible, and they may not seek help because they’re afraid no one
will believe them. So “We see you, we believe you” attempts to remove that barrier
to let people know that there is help available and people who care that will
believe.
A secondary poster was created to say,
“The life wasn’t your choice.” Stakeholders identified the language people
often use to describe sex trafficking are terms like “the life” or “the
hustle.” The message “The life wasn’t your choice” is more likely to resonate
with the audience of those age groups particularly so they can connect with
supports through 211 Saskatchewan. The image used reflects the fact that people
are often transported from one community to another in a car, and I have an
example of the posters if you’d like to see them.
Brittney
Senger: —
I’m happy to access them online as well. That’s okay.
Bernadet Hamill:
— What’s that?
Brittney
Senger: —
I can always access them online.
Bernadet Hamill:
— Oh, I don’t mind because it’s actually quite . . . it’s helpful to
see the visuals. So the first one, “We believe you, we see you,” is an image
depicting a young woman, a woman looking out a window. And as you can see at
the bottom, it was to call and connect with 211 Saskatchewan. The Status of
Women office provided extra funding to 211 Saskatchewan to create a human
trafficking-specific button where survivors or family members or friends can
connect there to even start to get more education. Because sometimes the
barrier is understanding these pieces.
And “The life wasn’t your choice”
depicts, as you can see, a younger person often who’s being taken to a
location. And again these images were drawn from that extensive engagement that
was conducted with people. I have a little bit more too. Sorry, I have to flip
back.
[18:00]
And the third poster was, “It started
with attention, now it’s control.” We know that traffickers often target
vulnerable women and girls. This poster captures how human trafficking can
begin through being showered with gifts and attention. It’s called the Romeo
scenario. Some folks even call it the friendship scenario. What starts out with
kindness and care evolves into a relationship of control and exploitation.
It’s a visual story that’s intended to
resonate, and this is the poster there. And often that’s what we’ve heard was
the Romeo effect or the friendship effect was through giving of gifts,
particularly to those that maybe can’t afford brand-name clothing or brand-name
jewellery or . . . I haven’t had teenagers for a long time, so
sometimes I’m really out of the trends, but that’s what they told us.
And it’s through that poster campaign
that also select spaces across Saskatchewan were chosen. So through that
research was — forgive the term — high-traffic areas. Gas stations,
restaurants, places like that, including the Craven Country Thunder had over
500 posters in every washroom at the music festival. As well as this was
supported with police services, RCMP [Royal Canadian Mounted Police], those
that work in those departments.
Brittney
Senger: —
Thank you. Those are very well-designed and beautiful posters. I appreciate you
taking the time to share those.
You touched on a couple of things that I
wanted to follow up on. You know, you talked about how these are oftentimes
existing relationships that women and girls already have, and you’ve said that,
you know, really it typically does affect vulnerable women and girls. I
appreciate that you shared the posters in gas stations and restaurants, but
when we’re talking about girls that may be trafficked, that may be experiencing
violence, they’re probably not going to go to a gas station and get gas if
they’re under 16. And if they are 16, you know, they may not be the one filling
up their tank. So I wanted to see if third parties are going to be allowed in
schools to educate youth on healthy relationships.
Bernadet Hamill:
— Can I just speak to what you just mentioned there about the under 16 in the
gas stations and why that was chosen? It was chosen because that’s where
traffickers take victims. And often they’ll ask to go to a washroom, and it’s
the only space where a younger girl or woman can be alone. So it wasn’t
designed to be in gas stations or restaurants because of an age-specific or
thinking of only females being, or the victims being, or survivors being
drivers. It was actually because that’s where traffickers stop.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay, thank you. Again, revisiting the existing relationships and talking about
how it is typically somebody in their own life. Will third parties be allowed
in schools to provide education on healthy relationships to help prevent IPV
[intimate partner violence], GBV [gender-based violence], sexual violence, and
human trafficking?
Chair
B. McLeod: — I’m going to intervene here at this
point in time, and I’m just going to say that the work of this committee is to
go to what’s on paper here. That’s a political decision that the government has
made, and I don’t believe it enters into any of the estimates in regards to
Status of Women or sports, culture, and recreation. Ask another question,
please.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. How much usage has the crisis line increased this past year?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So thank you for the question. Because that initiative is managed through the
Ministry of Justice and Attorney General, I don’t have a lot of statistics for
you. But what I can share with you is that the program is delivered by United
Way Regina who is providing confidential 30‑minute intervention
counselling. This includes support callers in developing safety plans to
prevent violence and abuse. This service is provided in over 175 languages, 17
of which are Indigenous, and it’s available through text, email, and online
chat.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay, thank you. What funding will the government spend to compensate the
groups that were . . . How much was spent on the development of the
posters that were shared?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So we collaborate with the Ministry of Justice on the human trafficking
poster campaign, but the budget to allocate the funds to pay for that with the
developer sits with the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General. So I’m not
able to speak to that.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. What funding is the government using to recreate what has been previously
provided to schools for free by third-party vendors around healthy
relationships?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
I will speak to that. That is not something we can answer at this table because
we’re not part of the education. And as Mr. Chair pointed out, that was a
decision made by government.
Chair
B. McLeod: — And I would just reaffirm that
position. We’re talking about summary of appropriation and expense related to
the vote that’s in front of us. And so the Minister is correct and I will not
entertain those questions.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay, thank you. And sorry, forgive me. It’s my first time in estimates. I
don’t really know what I’m doing here, but I am going to continue with my
questions. Apologies.
How is the Status of Women department or
the government measuring the effectiveness of the initiatives that have been
put forward to end gender-based violence and interpersonal violence?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So thank you for that question. And part of the work that we do across
government to manage the agreement with the federal government includes data
collection to meet the reporting requirements that we work with the federal
government to provide to them.
Brittney
Senger: —
Can you speak a little bit more about what those requirements are?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So I don’t have the expected results framework. I apologize; I thought I had
printed out everything I could. But Women and Gender Equality Canada have
Saskatchewan’s . . . The expected results framework that was
developed with the provinces and territories through the collaborative process,
and the expected results framework is indicated there right on the Women and
Gender Equality’s website.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay, great. And so I will certainly have a look at that. If you have any other
information measuring the success of where things are right now or how things
have progressed, I would appreciate it if you could table that and provide me
with that information.
Bernadet Hamill:
— Again, I’ll go back to the provincial budget process. Every ministry is
required to do their own annual reporting. So in addition to what we collect
from the ministries participating in the implementation of the national action
plan to end gender-based violence, each ministry does their own individual
reporting. So they provide their own additional performance measures through
their annual reports. That’s worked with the Ministry of Finance. But I did
locate, you know . . . I can go over some of the . . . I
did find the performance indicators for the expected results, so I can kind of
go over them for you right now if you would like.
Brittney
Senger: —
Great.
Bernadet Hamill:
— Sure. So they look at short- and medium- and shared long-term outcomes for
the national action plan. So some of the short-term indicators are, you know,
looking at intended audiences that have access to resources and programs and
support. So an example of the performance indicator for that one is the number
of individuals accessing resources and programs and supports provided by
provinces’ and territories’ funding.
And another indicator that they look at
is at a percentage of projects serving Indigenous partners that reported
delivering resources, programs, and supports that were culturally appropriate,
and the percentage of projects funded through the national action plan to end
gender-based violence that are Indigenous-led.
So some of the medium-term outcomes and
performance indicators are, individuals have a mindset to prevent and address
gender-based violence. So the indicator for that one is the percentage of
individuals reporting . . . and/or disagreement with positive
attitude and behaviour statements related to gender-based violence. For that
one the Government of Canada is providing through StatsCan.
[18:15]
So it’s a partnership of different
. . . Another one is, intended audiences’ gender-based
violence-related awareness to prevent and address gender-based violence is
increased. So again they’re looking at the percentage of stakeholders reporting
that their gender-based violence-related awareness has increased as a result of
new initiatives. And I should stop and say these indicators aren’t static.
So the federal government from time to
time will be assessing this to see, you know, are these the right performance
indicators to be looking at? Is there other indicators? And so they have an
evaluator that works for Women and Gender Equality Canada that works with all
the provinces and territories, including ourselves. We have our staff work to
roll that information and engage with the federal government to understand, you
know, what is the best indicator. And those discussions happen at that national
level with other provincial and territorial counterparts as well. Do you want
me to continue?
Brittney
Senger: —
No, I think that that’s okay. I’ve got a few more questions to get through, and
I know I’m running short on time. I’m sorry.
You know, Statistics Canada has been
thrown out there. Justice has been thrown out there, Finance. So the metrics
that you’re referring to, I’m sorry, where would I find those exact metrics
that you’re referencing right now, the results for Saskatchewan?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So because it’s a national action plan, the federal government has rolled up
all the information provided up through the provinces and territories, and they
provide a national report-out available again on the Women and Gender Equality
Canada’s website.
Brittney
Senger: —
Great. So I’ll be able to find Saskatchewan statistics on the WAGE website.
Bernadet
Hamill: —
So Saskatchewan’s information is included within the national report-up by the
federal government.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. I’m going to jump around a little bit here. So in the budget it was
announced that CBOs [community-based organization] will receive a 3 per cent
increase of funding. I just want to confirm that the Status of Women department
will increase the funding that they already provide to CBOs by 3 per cent.
Greg Gettle: — Thank you. Sorry,
it took us a little bit of time because we were trying to figure what 3 per
cent CBO lift you were referring to. And the reason why we couldn’t figure it
out is because the funding that is provided through the Status of Women office
is project-based funding, not an ongoing relationship funding. And so we
believe that the 3 per cent CBO lift you’re referring to is based on that
ongoing relationships, which is not applicable to the funding that’s provided
through the Status of Women office.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. Thank you. That’s helpful. Okay, I’m going to try and wrap things up
pretty quickly here. The federal government is reviewing the funding model for
shelters. Will the provincial government do something similar to what the
federal government is doing or commit to adopting their recommendation?
Chair
B. McLeod: — I’d like that question to come back
to what we’re dealing with, if at all possible, in terms of this summary that
we’re speaking to. But if the minister wants to add a remark, I’m happy to
hear.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
It’s just, to add to what you’re saying, that would be Justice because it is
Justice, their budget who supports the shelters.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. And again, thank you for your
guidance through this.
Chair
B. McLeod: — That’s why I’m here.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. Just the last couple questions before I pass things over. This is in
regards to the economic side of the budget and the work that the Status of
Women department is doing. So I wanted to ask, has the increase in women’s pay
in the last year kept up with inflation?
Bernadet Hamill:
— So thank you for your question. And what I can share with you is that over
the past 10 years the average weekly wage for women in Saskatchewan has
increased by $250.17. And this information comes from the Ministry of
Immigration and Career Training, who hold the labour force, workforce
statistical information and where we get our information from.
What we do know is the most recent
increase is reflecting that women are earning an average of $30.18 an hour,
which is an increase up over the last 12 months.
Brittney
Senger: —
Okay. And then is this pay increase the same rate as a man’s, or has the gap
widened or narrowed?
Bernadet Hamill:
— I’m sorry, I can’t answer that. I don’t have those comparables.
Brittney
Senger: —
Is it possible to get them?
Bernadet Hamill:
— I’m going to defer to the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training.
They’re the ones that do the labour force statistics.
Brittney Senger: — Okay. And then,
sorry, just my very last question. I know that the Status of Women department
is doing some great work around STEAM. I’m very happy with that. We all know
that there need to be more women in science, technology, engineering, math, and
arts. You know, and as you mentioned, you don’t have the statistics around
women’s pay versus men’s pay and the wage gap. I’m just wondering if there is a
plan to develop some sort of legislation around ending the wage gap to support
those industries.
Bernadet Hamill:
— Okay, so just to answer your question. So Status of Women office has been
undertaking leading a provincial working group, working with other ministries
to develop a current-state analysis for Saskatchewan to look at women’s
under-representation. As you just mentioned, it’s still below 30 per cent. And
I don’t have the actual numbers in front of me, but they haven’t deviated too
far from in and around that over the last several years.
So one of the things that we’re doing,
and this year it’s part of our business plan, is to look at that information
and conduct an analysis, a gap analysis, and determine what we can do to
develop some recommendations.
Brittney
Senger: —
Thank you.
Chair
B. McLeod: — MLA Warrington, please. Your
questions.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much for all of your responses. We’re
heartened that we’ve been able to get through in sort of the time that we
budgeted for ourselves for Ms. Senger. So we really appreciate how prompt all
of your responses have been.
So I’ll apologize in advance. This line
of questioning that I have here might jump around a little bit because I’m
going to maybe circle back to certain questions at the end if we have enough
time to come back to them. So my apologies if I’m jumping from topic to topic.
In my introduction I didn’t really
mention how much I enjoy our provincial parks. I go up to Battlefords
Provincial Park on a regular basis. And I’ve been around to various
. . . I’m a golfer so when you were mentioning that we have golf
courses on the provincial parks, I’ve been to many of them.
Paul Johnson: — Good afternoon, evening. Paul Johnson. I’m the
assistant deputy minister for parks division. Thank you for the question.
We’ve been thinking a
lot about tariffs. And I think I’ll start from a good news perspective with
tariffs, and that is that we believe that the current geopolitical situation
caused by tariffs and resulting in exchange rate differentials, that our
provincial parks are going to have a fantastic summer. We’re going to see very,
very high levels of visitation and participation in our activities. And we
believe that Saskatchewan people and other Canadian residents as well will
choose Saskatchewan parks for their vacations. So we’re quite excited about
that.
[18:30]
We’ve also been looking
at the tariff impacts on the costs of providing the services we do in parks. As
you’re aware, we have a capital program that invests in our infrastructure in
parks — that is buildings, that is water and sewage pipelines, electrical, all
the infrastructure that we have. And with our capital program we provide
funding to maintain, to upgrade, to repair all that infrastructure.
We believe that the
tariffs may have some impact on our capital program in terms of having higher
costs. If we’re using, for instance, products in the capital program that
originate from the United States, or even Canadian products like steel, the
costs may be higher. But our ’25‑26 capital program has not yet launched.
We are still in planning and preparation, so it’s too soon to say whether or
not that will actually result in higher costs.
A third area, and that
is supplies, supplies that we use to keep our parks beautiful. Things like
cleaning supplies, tissue paper, soap — those things that we use on a daily
basis in parks. Again some of those supplies may originate from the United
States and may also be subject to tariffs. So those are the areas that I think
we anticipate may be impacted.
Darcy Warrington: — Thank you, assistant to the deputy minister. Sorry, Mr.
Johnson, was it?
Paul Johnson: — Yes.
Darcy Warrington: — Okay. So thank you for your response. As I said, I’ll
circle back to tariffs in various points. We’ll continue the focus on the
provincial parks though.
How many
full-time staff worked in the provincial parks in each of the last two budget
years, plus how many are projected for this budget year?
Paul Johnson: — Thank you for the question. Again lots of
different numbers and breakdowns, and I’m trying to just get the answer to your
question correctly. I can say best to refer to our budget numbers. So in the
provincial parks program, in ’23‑24 the actual FTEs [full-time
equivalent] that were utilized were 317.7, and the number for ’24‑25
budget was 311.3. That is total number of FTEs used for each of those last two
fiscal years in the parks.
Darcy
Warrington: — And is
there a projected number for this year or is that unknown?
Paul Johnson: — I think we are projecting the ’25‑26
budget number for FTEs in the revolving fund is 311.3, virtually the same as it
was last year.
Darcy
Warrington: — Okay. And
if it’s readily available and easy to find, the same question but for part-time
staff.
Paul Johnson: — I think it’s useful to sort of describe how
things work in parks. Of course during the busy summer season our labour force
ramps up significantly because we add quite a number of students that work in
our parks. And we also have a classification of employees called labour
service, and they are full-time employees but they are only for a portion of
the year, and they’re recallable employees every year.
With that of
course we have a number of permanent full-time employees that work in every
park, which is a very small number in the winter season. And it grows somewhat
again in the summer, in the busy summer student.
I can give you
a little bit of a breakdown on that FTE. And I should also just clarify how
FTEs are counted in a park. Like an FTE is one person working full-time for 365
days. But as you can imagine, when we have summer students working for two or
three months, one summer student could be .25 or .3 of an FTE, and it would
take three or four to make up one FTE. So it’s a bit complicated that way.
Darcy
Warrington: — Could I
interject just for a second then, only to make your job easier, hopefully. So
the initial numbers that you provided, those aren’t necessarily year-round.
Those are seasonal, yeah? Okay.
Paul Johnson: — Correct.
Darcy
Warrington: — So then,
yeah, comparatively whatever numbers you would have for part-time staff — or we
could refer to them as summer staff, summer students — what would that range of
numbers look like from 2023 to 2024, 2024 to 2025, and this year’s projected
budget?
Paul Johnson: — I’ll give you the number that we have for
’24‑25, the year we’re most currently finished. And it won’t have varied
very much from year to year. We may have an extra part-time student here or
there.
But I can tell
you that out of the 311 FTE, approximately 75 of that FTE is students that we
hire every summer across our provincial parks and recreation sites. And 187 of
that number would be more of those labour service employees, the ones that are
there for a good portion of the year but are hired, recalled in the spring, and
then laid off again at the end of the busy season. So that would be a
proportional breakdown, and it would be representative of the last two or three
years in Parks as well.
Darcy Warrington: — Okay. And my apologies. Is there a portion
. . . And I’ll plead the same argument that Brittney made; I’m new
here. Do you have a non-full-time-employed breakdown of the numbers from 2023
to now? So part-time could often be considered 15 to, say, 25 hours a week. Do
you have any numbers like that?
Chair B. McLeod: — And just before you answer the question, I
just would welcome the MLA Leroy Laliberte, he who is a member of our
committee. Welcome to Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice. Good to have you
here. Now the answer.
Greg Gettle: — Thank you. Mr. Warrington, could you just
clarify? And it’s only because part-time is really not a common term for Parks.
And the reason why is because we have such a seasonal nature of our staff.
And so even if
you were to look at part-time — because as we were trying to figure like what
would we report on for part-time — even our students, that we would kind of
consider part-time because they’re only with us for some of the season,
actually work full-time throughout the summer. And so you might say, well
that’s not part-time. That’s full-time. So if you could clarify what you’re
thinking in part-time, that may help guide our answer.
Darcy
Warrington: — Sure. So
my question. It appears maybe, when you’re looking at the 317.7, 311.3, 311.3
over the last three years, that this is encompassing all employees whether
they’re full-time or part-time. Is that correct?
Greg Gettle: — Correct, yes. And let me clarify, that’s
FTEs. And so sometimes people don’t necessarily understand the difference.
Darcy
Warrington: — I do.
Greg Gettle: — Okay, good.
Darcy
Warrington: — I was just
wondering if there was a separate set of numbers for . . .
Greg Gettle: — No, that’s the total roll-up budgeted
numbers, yes.
Darcy
Warrington: — Okay. All
right, thank you. Sorry for the confusion. My next question would be to be
tabled because I don’t think that you could provide all of this information in
under four minutes. But could you please table all of the private business
operations that were approved or contracted in provincial parks in 2024‑2025?
Chair B.
McLeod: — If that
information is available, I’m not worried about four minutes in terms of
timeline. If it’s available and here and can be presented today, let’s do it.
[18:45]
Paul Johnson:
— Thank you. As you indicated, there are quite a few businesses in parks, and
actually we love having businesses operating in parks because it gives our
visitors, our guests, things to do in parks, experiences to enjoy, different
ways to get out and experience nature and the park itself. So we love the
businesses. We’re open for business. We’re constantly working to attract new
business opportunities into our parks, again to give our visitors additional
things to do and experience at the parks.
I can tell you that there are 184
businesses currently operating in Saskatchewan parks, 149 of those are
commercial lessees. These are ones where we have a commercially based lease
with, an agreement with. There are 19 institutional groups. This would be
camps, church camps, Scouts, etc.
And then we have a handful of businesses
that are operating under permits or business operating licence agreements which
are very, very short term in nature. And we offer the last category for people
that want to try something out before they enter into a commercial lease with
us. Maybe it’s a one-year permit to try out the business to see how it succeeds
within a park. So that’s a very high-level breakdown of the businesses that we
love to have in parks.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you. That is a very good generalization of all of those businesses, and
as I noted in my apologies to the Chair, I figured it would be as many as that.
I guess what I’m asking is, can we get a list of those businesses?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
So because we’re discussing the 2025‑26 estimates, yes, this is not a
part of what those estimates are, so I would decline.
Darcy
Warrington: —
And I appreciate the response. My next question was going to be can you please
list all of the 2025‑2026 private business operations that are contracted
out, that are going to be a part of the 36 provincial parks in our province
through your budget? That could be tabled as well, as I understand it’s a
couple hundred businesses.
Greg Gettle:
— So because your question is for the 2025‑26 year, we actually don’t
know all of the business lessees that would be operating in parks this year. It
varies from year to year, and we haven’t really gotten into our busy summer
season. And so we don’t exactly know who might be operating in its entire list
at this stage.
Darcy
Warrington: —
So to be clear, we can’t request the businesses from last year, and we’re not
privy to the information this year either? Is that what you’re saying, Deputy
Minister?
Greg Gettle:
— For this year we don’t even have the list yet because it will change as the
year progresses. Some of those businesses that would have operated last year
don’t necessarily have to operate this year. And so they apply on an annual
basis, and that’s why we don’t have the list yet for ’25‑26 because we
haven’t gotten into that season yet.
Darcy
Warrington: —
And when could such a list for this year’s businesses be provided?
Greg Gettle:
— So we could certainly provide the list in the fall of all the businesses that
operated in the summer.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Just for a firmer date, so could we say September 1st?
Greg Gettle:
— Based on that date, yes, absolutely. Up to that date.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you. And just for frame of reference, the reason that I was asking about
’23‑24, ’24‑25 in relation to this year’s budget is so that we can
get an understanding of whether it’s going up in the spending, or whether it’s
going down, or whether it’s flatlined. So for frame of reference, if any of my
questions go that route it’s to compare and contrast. If you believe that
information is publicly available to us, then just suggest so and then we can
go from there.
And to that point also, since there is a
list that would be available on September 1st for this year’s budget, is there
publicly available information that I could, you know, a link or a publication
that would allow us to look at the businesses that were employed last year?
Paul Johnson:
— Yes. Yes, we can point you to the ministry website where most of the
businesses that operated last season will be listed on that website. Again it’s
a point in time. Businesses come and businesses go, so it’s a bit of a moving
target. But we try and maintain an online list of businesses on our website for
our visitors to understand what they can do and enjoy when they go to the
parks.
Darcy
Warrington: —
So you would be okay if I reach out to you via email for that information, Mr.
Johnson?
Paul Johnson:
— Yes, or I could point you straight to the saskparks.com website where they
would be listed.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Sometimes there’s multiple tabs and things, but yes, sure, you can point me in
that direction.
Okay. So with the tariffs and wanting to
know if we are giving all of the opportunities that we can to Canadian
companies, Saskatchewan companies, in terms of the ’25‑26 budget it’s
relevant to ask what is the mechanism or process used to bring private business
operations into the provincial parks? And is this the mechanism that was used
for all of the new private business operations coming into the provincial parks
last year and this year?
I
can repeat that question. It was a mouthful. What is the mechanism or process
used to bring private business operations into the provincial parks? And is
this the mechanism that was used for all of the new private business operations
coming into our parks last budget year and this budget year?
Paul
Johnson: — I’m happy to answer that one on the
business development mechanisms that we use in parks. So for quite a few years
actually, we haven’t changed it significantly. We use what’s called a business
development framework to look at what businesses we have in parks and what we
need in parks.
So we have a tool called the business
development framework. When we bring that together, and we identify a certain
type of business that we would like to have operate in a park, we do a request
for proposals. We seek out new operators to come and provide that type of
business that our stakeholders and communities have asked for within the park.
We also receive unsolicited business
proposals from the private sector, and we review those again with the same
framework in mind, the business development framework. Do we have people
already operating that type of business in the park? Is it conducive to that
type of park? Does it fit within the environment of that park? So there’s a
number of factors that go into the business development framework that we use,
and that has not changed for a number of years.
Now we will be reviewing this year all
new business proposals, again along the same lines as procurement and other
questions, to make sure the businesses that we are attracting and entering into
a commercial lease licence for in parks are preferred Saskatchewan or Canadian
providers of that business.
[19:00]
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you for the response. I’m glad to hear it. So now I’ll go into
. . . Actually I’m going to maybe change my response here. One
moment. I might adjust my question later, but is the ministry making any
payments for services to an organization called Aspira Connect? If so, how much
— through our contract that was discussed in question period today by one of
the ministers — how much are we scheduled to pay them before their contract
expires?
Chair
B. McLeod: — And I would just caution that might
be proprietary knowledge in that regard because it did go through a request for
proposal, if it has. And so I would just very much caution the answer that
would come in that regard.
Darcy
Warrington: —
I just want to be clear, Mr. Chair. You’re cautioning that we’re asking for the
amount of money, not that we’re asking about Aspira Connect? Because the
members on the other side have publicly mentioned Aspira Connect over the last
several . . . So I’m just trying to be clear which part you take
issue with.
Chair
B. McLeod: — I just want to be sure that, in
terms of privacy, that we respect what’s out there — and they will know better
than I in that regard — but the privacy aspect of contracts that are awarded.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Yes. Thank you.
Paul Johnson:
— Thank you for the question. Yeah, Aspira . . . I’ll back up a
little bit. This dates back to 2020 when we did a request for proposal. And at
the time the request for proposal was for a five-year contract to provide the
campground management reservation service. And in 2020, Aspira was the company
that was successful in that open and public tender process. So we’ve been
working with Aspira. And good news, we had a reservation launch this morning
for seasonal campsites, and it went off fantastic. We filled 822 of the 879
seasonal campsites in minutes this morning with our online reservation system.
So the question specifically, I think,
was regarding the fees. So the campground reservation and management system
that is provided by Aspira is a user-pay model where the user fees cover the
full cost and is not subsidized at all by the taxpayer. So for every
reservation transaction, there is a transaction fee that the user pays, not the
Ministry of Parks, Culture and Sport.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay. So is each transaction the same amount regardless of how long they’re
staying?
Paul Johnson:
— Yes, there’s a transaction fee for every reservation you make, regardless of
length of the reservation. It’s one fee, and that is the same.
Darcy
Warrington: —
And how much is that fee?
Paul Johnson:
— As the contract expires in September, we will be taking that back out for
procurement for a new five-year contract. That is proprietary information that
we have in the contract between the Ministry . . . it’s SaskBuilds,
sorry, between SaskBuilds and Aspira. The ministry doesn’t own the contract;
SaskBuilds does.
Darcy
Warrington: —
I could go online a book a site, and I could probably figure it out. Would you
say that that’s the case?
Paul Johnson:
— Yes.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay.
Paul Johnson:
— It’s very transparent.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Just before you continue — I’m not
stopping you — I just wanted to mention that Leroy Laliberte had to leave for
pressing matters. And we welcome Don McBean, who’s been fully vetted as well
with this sheet right in my hands. So welcome, Don, Don McBean, to the
Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice Committee. Please, go ahead.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Good to see you, Mr. McBean. Sorry, I make fun of him all the time, Mr. McLeod.
No one can pronounce his name right because his family spelled it wrong a long
time ago, I think.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Oh goodness, I’m sorry. McBean.
Don McBean: — Just like the McLeans.
Darcy
Warrington: —
So how many reservations did we book last year and are projected to book this
year?
Paul Johnson:
— As I talked about a few moments ago, the reservation system is very active,
particularly this week and into next week as we get into launch. And I gave
some numbers a few minutes ago about this morning’s reservation launch for
seasonal campsites. Very highly successful.
Starting tomorrow we turn on the nightly
reservations, and it includes a number of parks over about the next nine-day
period. We batch them together, different regions, so people can manage their
vacation planning accordingly.
And so for that next period of time
between April 8th and 15th, we will average about 7,000 bookings per day. And
over the year in 2024 there were approximately 80,000 bookings.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Wonderful, thank you very much. We talked briefly, actually Minister Ross
mentioned it today, that the contract ends in September. Is that correct?
Paul Johnson:
— Correct.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay. So will there be a publicly tendered competition for the next contract?
Paul Johnson:
— Yeah, thank you again for the question. You are correct. The current
five-year contract with Aspira ends in September of 2025, and I can say that
several months ago we started to work with SaskBuilds and Procurement on a
process for a new service contract that would begin as soon as we could.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay. And my apologies, sometimes people are giving me other ideas. Are there,
to your knowledge, any Saskatchewan companies or Canadian companies that do
this work in Canada at the moment?
Paul Johnson:
— So the last time we took the integrated reservation and camping management
system out for tender, in 2020, there were no Saskatchewan companies that
entered that tender process. Things may have evolved over the last five years,
four and a half years. We don’t know if there are Saskatchewan companies that
are currently able to provide the service that we need for our reservation
system. As we work with SaskBuilds to look at a new process for a new service
contract, we will learn if there’s more companies that can provide this level
of service.
Darcy
Warrington: —
And with that work with SaskBuilds and investigating maybe new procurement
procedures, is it within your ministry’s mandate to seek out privately other
. . . seek out domestically other companies that can do the work that
are not American?
[19:15]
Paul Johnson:
— So as we’ve discussed, SaskBuilds and Procurement will be leading the process
for a new service contract this fall. We, as the Ministry of Parks, would be
very active in setting our business needs. What do we need for a reservation
and camping system? We would provide that into SaskBuilds, and then they would
initiate the process for procurement. And we would definitely follow the
procurement rules set by SaskBuilds at that time as we go to tender the
contract.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you for your response. I’ll try to be more specific. With the commitment
of this government through the budget and through the recent motion that passed
unanimously in the legislature, it was indicated that the government was going
to take every opportunity there is to employ Saskatchewan companies, to employ
Canadian companies.
My
question is, when we have American companies that are doing the work, and we
want to see less American investment from our government towards those
businesses, will your ministry reach out to Canadian businesses and seek them
out even if they don’t apply?
Paul Johnson:
— Thank you. I think the answer is simple on this one, is that we will continue
to follow the rules of procurement set out by SaskBuilds at the time of the
tender process.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you for your response. I need to go back a little bit. You’ve given us
some ideas how we can figure out the fee that’s being charged. Is the
information for what fee was being charged at our parks for the electronic
transaction bookings, is that publicly available from last season to see if
there’s been any fluctuation?
Paul Johnson:
— I can confirm that the fee has not changed since last year. The transaction
fee has not changed in the last year.
Darcy Warrington: — Okay, great. Thank
you very much. Minister, is the ministry making any payments for services to an
organization called Fresh Air Educators in the 2025‑2026 budget? If so,
how much are they scheduled to be paid for their contracted service? Fresh Air
Educators.
Paul Johnson:
— Thank you for the question. To my knowledge I’m not aware of any payments or
programs to that, a company by that name.
Darcy Warrington: — So is this
ministry responsible for snowmobile courses?
Paul Johnson:
— No. We are not at all responsible for that.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Is this ministry responsible for hunter safety programs?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
No, we aren’t.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Which ministry? Justice?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
I just know it’s not Parks, Culture and Sport.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Environment? Okay. Thank you. And I’ll ask one more question. Then whatever
time we have left, Ms. Roy and I will collaborate on a few additional
questions.
But
I’ll jump over to Creative Saskatchewan. I wish I had the forecast in front of
me, but the estimate I believe was roughly what was forecast in the previous
budget. It was 18.125 million, and now it’s 16.125 million. My first
question is, what went into the decision making to reduce their budget by $2 million,
an 11 per cent reduction?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. The 2025‑26 budget for the Ministry of Parks,
Culture and Sport delivers a number of new affordability measures that our
government committed to: doubling the active families benefit, doubling the
community rink affordability grant, and introducing the new school playground
equipment grant. Two million dollars was reallocated from the film and TV
production grant so that we could deliver on these affordability measures while
maintaining fiscal responsibility.
This year our government is investing
$10 million in the film and TV production grant program through Creative
Saskatchewan, and it is important to recognize that the level of funding
provided is very significant. Ten million dollars is a 400 per cent increase in
funding since 2021‑22.
Darcy
Warrington: —
And what would the increase be from 2012 to 2020? Mr. Chair, I’ll withdraw my
question. It’s not necessary for us to know that far back.
I’m going to turn my time over to Ms.
Roy now, but if there is some time in the last few minutes, I’d like to return
and ask a couple more as we close. Thank you. Ms. Roy.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Thank you. Just go ahead.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you, Mr.
Chair, hon. members opposite, and everyone here tonight. I appreciate the hour
is late, so I will be as efficient and effective as possible. First question I
need to know, am I answering and asking in English or in French?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
In English please.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. Thank you.
The francophone advisory committee recommended — as you would well know,
Minister Ross — that we consult with several ministries together when coming up
with a budget, as obviously the budget is across several ministries. Has that
process taken place and exactly which ministries were consulted?
Dan French: — Hello,
I’m Dan French, assistant deputy minister with the Ministry of Parks, Culture
and Sport stewardship division. So the advisory committee on the francophone
affairs, they do have strategic planning, and they plan annually on topics that
is relevant from feedback from the communities and from conversations from
within our ministry as well.
So we’re not aware of any budget
discussions with the advisory committee on developing any of the budgets for
the Government of Saskatchewan.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you, Mr. French. And Mr. French, what
specific portfolio does your area encompass, please?
Dan French:
— My area?
Jacqueline Roy: — Yes.
Dan French:
— Francophone affairs, the Royal Saskatchewan Museum, the heritage conservation
branch, and the sports, culture, and recreation branch.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you, Mr. French. So when we look at
the rapport du comité consultatif [Translation: advisory committee report],
which is the consultative report that comes out in January of every year that
makes recommendations which will then be sent to the budget, we have things in
education, health, immigration, post-secondary, policing and justice,
SaskBuilds, jobs and economy, and seniors.
Is it my understanding therefore that none of
those groups were consulted during the making of this budget?
Dan French:
— Yes. Thank you for the question. We confirm we haven’t consulted specifically
with the Ministry of Parks, Culture and Sport. And we are not privy to any
other conversations that the communities have or the reports have with the
other ministries and other ministers.
Jacqueline Roy: — So just to
confirm, Mr. French, you are not privy to any of the information any of the
other ministries had in coming up with this budget line that belongs to
francophone affairs?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
So thank you for your question. The federal amount that we receive is
conditional on the province spending an equivalent amount on French-language
services. The Ministry of Parks, Culture and Sport works in collaboration with
other ministries, government agencies, and Crown corporations to ensure all
investments in French-language services are accounted for to help us leverage
the entire envelope that we receive. And we are responsible to do the roll-up
at the end of the year.
Jacqueline Roy: — So if I get that
correctly, you are responsible for doing the roll-up at the end of the year,
correct? That’s just a yes or no I need.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Yeah. And that is correct. Other ministries consult with the French community
independently from our . . .
Jacqueline Roy: — Independently
entirely from your . . .
Hon. Alana
Ross: — From Parks, Culture and Sport. Right.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. Thank you.
Minister Ross, when you articulated in January 2025 in the report that
Saskatchewan would be inspiring itself from Alberta using bilateral agreements
going forward when it came to health care and meeting the needs of the
francophone community, has any progress been made as per that recommendation of
yours? And was that included in this budget?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you. That would not be something that would be part of our budget. You
would have to have a conversation with Health in order to get that information.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you for
that. But, Minister Ross, it’s my understanding in that report that was issued
that it was issued under your name, which is why I’m asking how it fits into
the budget.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. Once we put forward the recommendation, it is
deferred back to Health to follow through.
Jacqueline Roy: — Minister Ross, it
is my understanding that you referred specifically to Collège Mathieu, which is
an entirely French organization within the purview of francophone affairs
alone, about possible funding in post-secondary in that report. Can we get an
update as to where that post-secondary funding is, given that it is Collège
Mathieu, which is specifically francophone affairs and only secondly education
as per the article 23 of the Charter of Canadian rights.
Dan French:
— Yeah, if I understand the question correctly, you’re referring to the funding
that we provide Collège Mathieu. It’s only for services for French-language
training. Does that make sense?
Jacqueline Roy: — Actually it
doesn’t make sense. And this is very hard on me and disappointing for me
because as a member of the francophone community who understands what
francophone affairs are and the way estimates work for francophone affairs,
that question needs to be answered.
So I will perhaps rephrase it in a way
that we could possibly answer it. It is my understanding that Collège Mathieu
has been twice denied money for the bilingual training of LPNs [licensed
practical nurse] for example, via Sask Polytech. Yet in the report issued by
francophone affairs, they said they would be inspiring themselves of a program
that Alberta was using to have 50/50 money.
Dan French:
— And the question, sorry?
Jacqueline Roy: — Could you explain?
Dan French:
— What we understand is Advanced Education funds Collège Mathieu. And so we
provide funding specifically for French-language service training for
government employees through francophone affairs.
Jacqueline Roy: — I guess to the
minister: francophone affairs encompasses procedural issues with the budget,
health issues with the budget, education issues with the budget, and cultural
issues with the budget as per the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms,
which is why I’m asking these questions.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I
promise. Could I just get an honest answer here to clarify what questions am I
allowed to ask tonight then?
Chair
B. McLeod: — I would submit that the officials
seated before us are trying to provide the answers that you’re asking. And
suggesting that they’re not providing an honest answer is highly inappropriate.
So I would just encourage you ask questions that relate to the estimates that
are before us. And I’ll ask the minister to respond here, and then we’re going
to move on.
Jacqueline Roy: — Am I allowed to
reply to that?
Chair B. McLeod:
— At this point, I’m going to wait for the minister’s answer.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
This may help: the advisory committee, it’s not government. The committee is
external to government, if that helps.
Jacqueline Roy: — Minister Ross, am
I allowed to ask any questions regarding procedural, health, education, and
cultural elements of the francophone portfolio tonight?
[19:45]
Dan French:
— Okay. Perhaps it would be helpful if I can give an overview of francophone
affairs branch.
Jacqueline Roy: — No thank you,
that’s not what I asked.
Chair
B. McLeod: — I’ll allow that response because I
think it goes to answering the questions in the manner that have been asked.
And I will allow you to respond here.
Dan French:
— Okay. So the francophone affairs branch is the management of the French-language
service centre. They’re responsible for translations for government and Crown
agencies. They liaison with the francophone community, including the advisory
committee on francophone affairs. And then they are the management of the
Canada-Saskatchewan agreement between Canada and the federal government,
specifically the roll-up of how Saskatchewan spends that money.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you for
that. I do appreciate that, especially being first-language francophone, having
only learned to read and write formally in grade 4 in English.
Is it possible to have in the budget,
and was this put in the budget for this year, a translation of the budget?
There seems to be some confusion in the francophone community because when ads
appear as per funded by the francophone money that we have, for example in l’Eau
vive, the ad is in French but at the bottom it says “English only
available” for the budget. The rest of the ad is French. It says “English only
available” for budget.
Was
there no money this year in the budget for translation of the budget?
Dan French: — If I understood
the question, we translated the speech but not the technical documents.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, so the
speech was translated but not the technical documentation that went out.
Dan French: — Yes.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, thank you
for that. I appreciate that. I guess the one area that we do often look at when
it comes to translation services and parks, culture, recreation, and sport is
plaques — definitely, for sure. And the advisory committee has definitely recommended
that certain places have their plaques translated. I think that that’s actually
quite a simple win. I was wondering, was that included in this year’s budget or
is that still something we have to look forward to in the future?
Dan French: — Okay, so as for
the budget, we do have the budget. Like we do have the budget for translation.
So when it comes to plaques there’s certainly possibilities, and it’s typically
the program areas. I will give you an example. The Royal Saskatchewan Museum, any
new information, any new exhibits are in bilingual English and French, and in
some cases Cree for an example. So we provide that service directly from our
francophone affairs branch.
Jacqueline Roy: — So the museum in
question . . . Sorry, who has to make that initial ask? Because the
plaques I was referencing here are the Sask parks, Sask heritage, and heritage
historical sites as controlled per the minister. I was asking if those, if we
have money in the budget to translate those.
Dan French: — Yes, we’d have
money to translate those. As for the casting of the plaques itself, it would
have to come from the program area, from the heritage conservation branch for
an example. But yes, we would have the ability and the funds to translate
those.
Jacqueline Roy: — So the ability and
the funds are there to translate it, but . . . I’m just trying to
figure out which question I have to ask of the other department. Would that be
SaskBuilds that I would have to ask about the actual plaque? Is that what you’re
implying?
Dan French:
— No. No, it would all just depend on what’s the plaque for. Are you talking
about like a current plaque that’s already, say, on a historic building?
Jacqueline Roy: — Yes, that’s a very
good question. What I’m referring to is what the francophone advisory committee
recommended, which was the plaques across Saskatchewan which definitely have a
francophone-heavy heritage behind them and are mostly about French issues. They
had recommended those be translated at Saskatchewan historic sites, at
Saskatchewan historic registry places, and at Saskatchewan parks, for example,
Roche Percee and such places.
Dan French:
— I couldn’t say for certain, but I would say if there’s a new replacement out
there, translation certainly would be looked at. But as for the current that
are in place, I couldn’t say if those are going to be replaced simply to add a
language, for example.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, thank you.
So if I understand correctly, we might only consider adding French or Dene or
Cree or Michif if the plaque needed to be replaced due to damage purposes,
etc.?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Madame, may I just ask? I think we’re having a little difficulty. You’re not
talking about plaque replacements, are you? You’re talking about for
. . . Just please correct me. My understanding is you want to know
about sites that have specific interest or meaning to French people? You want
the additional plaque in the French language at that site. Is that correct?
Jacqueline Roy: — Correct. I’m
wondering if the recommendation has been taken and is in this budget for that
type of translation. Yes.
Hon. Alana Ross: — Okay, thank you.
[20:00]
Dan French:
— Sorry for the late response. We’re just trying to gather . . .
making sure we have all the information here. So there’s certainly
. . . the francophone affairs branch has funding for translation, so
they don’t do plaques. So they just have funding to help with translation. So
if somebody wants to designate an area, then they would work through heritage,
another branch. And then pending on if there is a strong French connection
there, there certainly would be some support to translate the wording on
marking that heritage property, if that makes sense.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you. I’m
sure the community would be very happy to hear that. And I guess one of the
reasons I am asking that question here is just to make the link with the
minister also being responsible for that heritage area, right. So yeah, thank
you.
Dan French:
— As you may know, Creative Saskatchewan is a separate organization and so we
couldn’t confirm where they’re at with that, know that status right now. But I
can tell you they were very supportive of that recommendation as they were at
that table and they were very supportive at that time. So I just couldn’t
comment on where they’re at at this moment.
Jacqueline Roy: — That’s great, and
I appreciate that so much. I guess one of the reasons I did bring it up is
because funding for Creative Sask was in the budget and is under Minister
Ross’s purview, so I thought that perhaps since she does both of that perhaps
she could answer.
Dan French:
— Like I said, they’re a separate entity with a separate board and of course a
CEO [chief executive officer], so we provide their funding and then they do
their strategic planning and they do their operational planning separately from
government.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, thank you. I
do believe the community will be very happy to hear that there’s some hope in
that area. In that cultural vein, are we contributing any funding to the ACF’s
[l’Assemblée communautaire fransaskoise] Maison de la Francophonie, the francophone
house project?
Dan French:
— To answer the question, the answer is no. And no formal ask has been made.
Jacqueline Roy: — No formal ask has
been made for francophone affairs to . . . Okay, so there’s been no
denial of an application?
Dan French:
— Yeah. We’re not aware of an application.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, so we’re not
aware of an application. Okay, thank you.
So we did sign that co‑operative
agreement with the Quebec government in 2017 to fund co-operations between
Fransaskois and Québécois organizations. Could we possibly table a list of all
the projects that are funded so far? I’m not sure if you would have that list
here tonight.
Dan French:
— Since 2017?
Jacqueline Roy: — Pardon me?
Dan French:
— Since 2017?
Jacqueline Roy: — That would be
useful. And I understand that might be too much to ask for tonight. And I guess
where I am kind of going with this question is I’m just wondering, going
forward in this budget, if we would know if it’s sort of the same organizations
being funded or discrete organizations that have not been funded before under
that 2017 agreement.
Dan French:
— So to answer your question, so for ’25‑26 we have one project that is
being supported thus far, and currently the agreement is being drafted. And
it’s a new recipient. It’s a new project.
Jacqueline Roy: — One project being
funded so far for this new fiscal year upcoming?
Dan French:
— Correct, ’25‑26.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, and who
might that be with?
Dan French:
— It’s currently drafted. So until it’s finalized we wouldn’t share that
information.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, so it’s protected information until
the draft is complete, correct?
Dan French:
— Correct.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. Looking a
little bit into the translation services and the request that’s been made to
the Ministry of Health. Is any francophone affairs funding going towards
assisting the Ministry of Health in increasing that accessibility to medical
services in French?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. We’re very new into this new fiscal year. We do
know that through the new Canada-Saskatchewan Agreement on French-language
Services, FAB [francophone affairs branch] is funding two health projects: a
mental health support line in French, Tel-Aide; and a patient accompaniment
service for people with limited English language skills. And we haven’t had any
further requests that we are aware of at this time. But we’re very new into the
fiscal year.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you. And
just in that vein of being a liaison with the francophone community, what sort
of consultation has been done with the francophone community regarding
increasing access to the French-language health services perhaps just outside
of those two areas?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
So that is not information that I have. You would need to confer with the
Ministry of Health — that’s who provides the services — to get that
information.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, so it would
be my understanding then that the reason we had information on mental health is
because those services, it’s the health care system getting back to your
bureau. Would that be correct?
Hon. Alana
Ross: — Correct.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you. Okay.
One thing I was very optimistic to learn about tonight was something that
affects Entr’Elles, which is the francophone group that is interested in women
affairs.
Education has been added to the group of
ministries that are being provided with financing that were not being provided
with financing last year, which I think is great. I am just wondering what
initiatives from the Status of Women portfolio are under way in that Education
portfolio for this upcoming year. How much money is associated with them, and
of course since it’s me, whether those services will be available in French.
Bernadet Hamill: — So I don’t know if I need to restate
my name, but Bernadet Hamill, executive director Status of Women office. And
thank you for your question. As I mentioned earlier, one of the ministries that
is participating in Saskatchewan’s implementation of the national action plan
to end gender-based violence is the Ministry of Education.
And with respect to the program, I’d
have to defer to the ministry itself. I have to be conscientious of the terms
of our agreement with Women and Gender Equality of the Government of Canada
which includes . . . We’re unable to say publicly amounts over a
certain amount. It’s $100,000. We’re not allowed to provide any kind of a
public announcement or what could be termed as public announcement according to
the Government of Canada.
What I can say is through the provincial
budget process, just like all the other ministries, the Ministry of Education
has had their funding set through that way. And I would have to defer the
question to the Ministry of Education who would be able to help answer that
question better for you.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. So just so I
have it correctly, once we hit the number 100,000, if it’s funded by the
federal government, that program can’t be released. Is that fair to say?
Bernadet
Hamill: — So what the agreement says
. . . And it’s match funding right, so the federal government is
providing a contribution amount within the agreement that we have with them.
Anything above 100,000 or greater requires us to provide notice to the Government
of Canada that there is a desire to make an announcement for that particular
initiative attached to the funding that’s matched with the funding that comes
through from Canada.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. Then would
it be safe to assume that this project is under 100,000, given that disclosure
agreement?
[20:15]
Bernadet
Hamill: — So once again it’s a budget
question, and I will defer to the Ministry of Education for you to ask them
that, because I can’t speak to their budget.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. So I would
have to ask the Ministry of Education whether the action plan to ask about
gender-based violence, whether that is a match funding over or under $100,000.
The Status of Women ministry can’t answer that. The Education department needs
to answer that or the Ministry of Education?
Bernadet
Hamill: — Yes, each ministry is responsible
for their annual budget.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. So that
disclosure has to come from the Ministry of Education for any of the policies
in any of those areas. Correct?
Bernadet
Hamill: — That’s correct.
Jacqueline Roy: — Thank you. Those
are all the questions I have tonight. Thank you very much for answering them to
the best of your abilities. And I hand it back to Darcy.
Chair B.
McLeod: — I’m just
going to intervene for just a moment. Thank you very much for the questions and
the answers. Sometimes a deep, good breath is needed in the occasion and
what I was referring to is the fact that the statement that “I want an honest
answer” was precluding the fact that you weren’t receiving it, and that’s not
parliamentary language that’s acceptable. That would have been called in the
House. We operate a little looser and a little bit more in a manner of good
back-and-forth banter, but we need to keep our language appropriate at all
times. So that’s what I was referring to.
MLA Warrington.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you to the Chair. I have about nine minutes. I missed a lot of stuff.
Maybe I can just email you all later my questions or have a phone call. I’m
just kidding.
Okay. So earlier, Minister, I can’t
remember who said it — someone said that Saskatchewan companies did not make
any proposals for the parks booking systems. I meant to follow up with this
question. Could you outline if any Canadian companies made proposals when
Aspira Connect was initially awarded the contract?
Paul Johnson:
— Thank you for the question. As I think I referenced earlier, the tender
process in 2000 was administered by SaskBuilds and Procurement. And that
ministry would be in a better position to advise what they can share in terms
of which companies bid on a project. I can share that Aspira was successful
because we’ve been working with them, but the Ministry of SaskBuilds would be
in a better position to determine if they can share the names of the companies
that bid.
Darcy
Warrington: —
So I’m just confused. Earlier you freely offered to me that no Saskatchewan
companies bid on the process, but now you’re telling me it should be posed to
SaskBuilds whether they’re Canadian or not?
Paul Johnson:
— Yes, I did confirm, and I’ll reiterate: there were no Saskatchewan companies
that bid in 2000. That’s information that we are party to. But I think it would
be . . . Because the contract and the tender process was managed by
SaskBuilds, they would be the ministry to respond to, if they can, the names of
the organizations that bid on a contract.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Thank you for your response. I said I’m a band teacher and a phys ed teacher,
and then I know 90 per cent or more of the ministry involves parks, so I’m just
going to slide over to culture and sport for a second. So the community sport,
culture, and recreation program is receiving a 172 per cent increase in
funding, which is great. Can you identify what that extra money is going to be
used for, who will receive it, and how can it be applied for? For the sake of
time, the how might be less important.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. So within that allocation there was a
$3.75 million increase for the new school playground equipment grant,
which was a platform commitment. And there was also a $1.6 million
increase for the community rink affordability grant. So the total funding for
that would be $3.200 million.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Great, thank you for that. That covered a couple of other questions, so that’s
good news. For my constituents and also for other constituents in particular
around P3 [public-private partnership] schools, there’s not a lot of
. . . there’s not enough opportunities for playgrounds, so I
appreciate that the funding is there for additional playgrounds or upgrades. I
wonder, is there any limits to if those playground funds can be used for
school-adjacent property that might be handled by a municipality instead?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. So the announcement was for school playground
. . . It was for a school playground equipment grant. The details
have not been released at this time, and we’re looking forward to seeing more
detail and can answer your question better at that time.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Do we know when those details will be available, Minister Ross?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
The programs will be rolled out by the fall of this year.
Darcy
Warrington: —
So the program’s going to be rolled out for the fall. It’s within this year’s
budget. So am I then to understand that there is no playground grant available
to be utilized prior to the fall?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. So we’re currently defining the application
process. The program applications will be available in the fall, and it’s going
to be available for four years. The program will be ongoing for four years.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Great, thank you for your response. Just as a teacher and a dad and someone who
is very close to some of these P3s that are very crowded, there’s not enough
playground space. So I would think it would be exorbitantly cheaper for the
government to consider allowing additional playgrounds to be zoned just off
school property.
But outside of that, I’ll also say I
only have time for maybe one more question, but I don’t think I’m going to get
a chance to ask a question in this regard. So I’m just going to say, I think
the same could be said for the rinks. I think that some of that funding should
be available to outdoor rinks. I don’t know if there’s a way that the
. . . As you’re developing your process for your playgrounds, perhaps
that process could be expanded to consider some of the outdoor rinks. Yeah, I
won’t ask my question regarding the rinks though.
My final question is a larger one. I’m
waiting for the big one at the end. Can you provide a breakdown by major
program areas of the budget allocations for 2025‑2026 major programs? And
I can be more specific, or it can be broad like that.
I’ll read it again. Can you provide a
breakdown by major program areas of the budget allocations for 2025‑26 by
major program?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Mr. Warrington, can I ask, do you have specific programs in mind?
[20:30]
Darcy
Warrington: —
Yeah, so you mentioned playgrounds. You mentioned the outdoor rinks, perhaps
some initiatives similar to that within the parks budget. It could be, you
know, rebuilding gazebos or it could be, you know, underground irrigation for a
golf course — though I don’t know if that’s necessarily something that we do.
But just any of your larger projects,
could you outline . . . And again, I’ll read it again. Can you
provide a breakdown by major program areas of the budget allocations for 2025‑26
by major program?
Chair B. McLeod:
— That is a very broad question. I understand what you’re asking for; I do.
Just be advised it’s going to lessen the time available for the final element.
Darcy
Warrington: —
That was my final question.
Chair B. McLeod:
— Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah.
Greg Gettle:
— Thank you for the question. I think we’ve got two public documents that would
likely help and hopefully answer the question you have. So on budget day we
would have released our 2025‑26 business plan. As well we released the
’25‑26 public estimates document. Those can both be found if you go on
Saskatchewan.ca and look up the Ministry of Parks, Culture and Sport. And
within both of those documents we list out most, if not all, of the major
programs that we have funding for in this current fiscal year.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay, so as specifically as the playgrounds, the outdoor rink funding — and my
apologies; I mean, I have looked at it — but it’s that itemized?
Greg Gettle:
— It goes into that level of detail, yes, and then the other parts of the
ministry as well.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Okay, thank you.
Chair
B. McLeod: — All right, having reached then our
agreed-upon time for consideration of estimates — and actually gone even longer
— for Parks, Culture and Sport, we are now going to adjourn consideration of
these estimates. And, Minister Ross, do you have any closing comments?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
No. I do thank you so very much to the committee for your questions, for
everyone in attendance here tonight. Thank you very much to my officials for
the hard work that they have done on our behalf. And thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair
B. McLeod: — And I will also ask our opposition
members if any comments for closing.
Darcy
Warrington: —
Yeah, so thank you, Mr. Chair. We appreciate your guidance throughout this. We
apologize to our counterparts across that didn’t get to ask any questions from
Yorkton or Martensville or Moose Jaw. But that being said, the work that you
all do is so important. It’s still somewhat mysterious to us. No, I’m just
kidding. I don’t know if you get my Severance reference. But I really
appreciate everything that you all do including you, Minister Ross. I’ve talked
to stakeholders who have a very good impression of you, so I’m more than happy
to say that I appreciate what you all do. So thank you all, and thank you to
the staff as well.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Thanks so much, everyone. We are
going to take a brief recess. Oh I’m sorry, was there . . .
Jacqueline Roy: — Oh, just and a
thank you to Hansard up there as well.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Thank you so much. I should have
been looking, but thank you for pointing that out, Minister Ross.
So a brief recess. We’re going to switch
officials here. And I think we need . . . Let’s come back right at
nine-forty . . . 8:45. 9:45 sounds better, but 8:45. Ten minutes.
Thank you, everyone. Thank you for your attention.
[The
committee recessed for a period of time.]
[20:45]
Chair
B. McLeod: — Thank you, everyone, for being back
now. And we’ll resume after a very brief recess. Just so you know, we will
proceed another 10 minutes longer to get the time in that we were allotted for
the evening, so we will conclude at 10:40.
General Revenue Fund
Tourism Saskatchewan
Vote 88
Subvote (TR01)
Chair
B. McLeod: — We’re going to move on now to
consideration of estimates for vote 88, Tourism Saskatchewan, subvote (TR01).
Minister Ross is here with officials from Tourism Saskatchewan. Welcome. And I
would ask that the officials please introduce themselves before they speak for
the first time and please don’t touch the microphones. The Hansard operator
will turn them on for you when you speak.
And I’ll just also mention as well that
joining us here again tonight, Raquel Hilbert, a regular member of
Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice. So welcome, Raquel.
Minister, please introduce your
officials and make your opening comments, please.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And good evening, everyone. It is my pleasure to speak to
the work of Tourism Saskatchewan and highlight some of the activities that will
build a thriving visitor economy and enrich the province’s tourism experiences
and destinations.
I’ll begin by introducing our CEO,
Jonathan Potts. Jonathan is joined by colleagues Amy McInnis, vice-president of
marketing and communications; Tracy Breher, vice-president of destination and
workforce development; and Cindy Mak, director of finance and administration.
And I would also like to introduce my chief of staff, Elias Nelson, who will
also be joining us.
Saskatchewan’s Growth Plan sets an
ambitious goal of a 50 per cent increase in tourist expenditures by 2030, a
jump from 2.4 billion to $3.6 billion annually. Tourism Saskatchewan
has solid strategies in place to achieve this goal and grow a robust industry
that plays an even bigger role in Saskatchewan’s economy.
These strategies include attracting
high-spending travellers by investing in targeted advertising and partnership
opportunities, increasing visitation and spending by United States anglers and
hunters, providing industry supports to increase the number and competitiveness
of the Saskatchewan tourism experiences and products, attracting large-scale
events and business travel, supporting new direct access air routes through
inbound marketing and airline partnerships, and developing training programs
and awareness campaigns to address industry-wide labour challenges.
Travel intentions were relatively stable
in 2024 despite high inflation and lower consumer confidence. Travel spending
reached $2.8 billion in 2023, an increase from 2022 levels of
$2.4 billion. Although Statistics Canada has yet to release the final
tourism statistics for 2024, data from the first three-quarters of the year
suggest that Saskatchewan has reached similar levels of visitor spending as
compared to 2023.
Tourism employment ranged from 54,700 to
67,000 full- and part-time positions in 2024, fluctuating seasonally and down
from the 2023 levels, as operators struggled with the impacts of labour
shortage. Hotel occupancy rates across the province continued to increase in
2024. Revenue per available room, a key measure for the hotel industry,
exceeded historic levels in 2024, reaching $83,250 compared to 65,980 in 2019.
Sales in the restaurant subsector increased by 4 per cent in 2024 compared to
the previous year. Sales in this sector have gone up by 28 per cent in 2019. A
significant portion of this spending is tied to rising food prices.
With the reintroduction of the direct
flight between Minneapolis and Saskatoon in June of 2023 and a new
Minneapolis-to-Regina route introduced in April of 2024, total US [United
States] air arrivals increased by 25 per cent in 2024. Cross-border vehicle
traffic from the US continued to increase in 2024, with a 1.8 per cent uptick
in 2024 over 2023.
Uncertainty around tariffs impacts
traveller sentiment and booking intentions. However with Canadians showing more
interest in domestic travel, positive US traveller sentiment, and improving
overseas market sentiment for Canada, there is an opportunity to enhance
inbound marketing efforts to boost tourism in Saskatchewan.
Destination Canada and Tourism
Saskatchewan are tracking key travel metrics to understand how best to support
tourism operators and inform marketing decisions. Saskatchewan’s tourism
markets are diversified with strong resident travel and steady visitation from
both domestic and international visitors. The resident market is our strongest,
making up approximately 60 per cent of visitor spending. Canadian travellers
make up 26 per cent of the domestic market, whereas the United States
compromises just over 9 per cent and overseas visitors account for nearly 5 per
cent of our province’s tourism markets.
To mitigate the situation, Tourism
Saskatchewan remains committed to its long-term marketing and advertising
strategy, which focuses on market expansion and targeted efforts rather than
reacting to shifting political dynamics. Efforts continue to concentrate on
niche, high-spending traveller segments such as hunters and anglers. These
travellers are less influenced by political tensions and more motivated by
their passion for the activities Saskatchewan offers.
Tourism Saskatchewan is continuing to
implement its refreshed brand and a new market development strategy with
increased investments in the domestic market for 2025‑26. Marketing is
focused on strengthening the province’s reputation and competitive advantage
through compelling storytelling, delivering consumer-focused content that
inspires travellers, and applying research and evaluation tools to refine and
adapt tactics to better target potential visitors.
In 2024‑25, Tourism Saskatchewan
partnered with Matador Network, the world’s largest independent traveller
publisher, to highlight Saskatchewan’s niche experiences. The snowmobiling
campaign earned 754,000 impressions, nearly 10,000 page views, and over 3,000
social engagements. The astrophotography campaign was even more successful,
with 1.3 million impressions, over 16,000 page views, and nearly 14,000
social engagements. Matador’s network social team noted the overwhelmingly
positive engagement.
In June of 2025, Tourism Saskatchewan
and Discover Saskatoon are co-hosting the Travel Media Association of Canada’s
conference, bringing together top Canadian travel media and industry
professionals. To showcase the province, Tourism Saskatchewan is offering 10
pre- and post-conference familiarization tours, which will generate significant
unpaid media exposure.
A new global marketing strategy will be
delivered in June of 2025 to inform priorities and tactics, targets, and key
actions across travel trade and travel media channels to grow international
visitation.
Also in June, Tourism Saskatchewan will
launch a redeveloped consumer-facing website. The site will focus on the
tourism brand through storytelling and content, promoting niche experiences and
highlighting the regional travel zones. A visually appealing design, web
accessibility practices, and personalization will enhance the user experience.
US anglers and hunters represent a
lucrative market for Saskatchewan’s outfitting industry, generating over
$144 million annually in operational impact, which includes revenue and
operator capital spending. Tourism Saskatchewan actively targets the US market
to generate awareness and demand for outfitted hunting and angling experiences.
Growing new markets for the future is a priority.
An annual fishing and hunting campaign
was conducted in a two-phase approach, starting with awareness, followed by
specific details promoting travel to Saskatchewan using direct flights from
Denver or Minneapolis. Their overall investment was $890,000 and the campaign
delivered a total of 36 million impressions and drove more than 31,000
website visits.
Saskatchewan’s outdoor experiences
appear through earned and paid media on every major outdoor network in the
United States and routinely outperform other destinations. Tourism
Saskatchewan’s support brought 40 outdoor media projects here last year. Leveraging
the influence and reach of popular outdoor hosts and programs is a fundamental
influence to influence anglers and hunters to choose Saskatchewan for their
next adventure.
In 2024‑25 Tourism Saskatchewan
partnered with Travel Manitoba and Destination Canada on the third and final
year of prairie angling program to stimulate the market recovery. Tourism
Saskatchewan invested $250,000 which was matched by Destination Canada. The campaign
ran in three phases that featured fly-in, drive-in, and ice fishing
experiences, resulting in 43 million impressions and nearly 300,000
website visits.
Attracting new events to the province is
a key strategic action to support increasing visitor spending to
$3.6 billion by 2030. Events boost the local economy through visitor
spending while enhancing the province’s global reputation as an attractive and
innovative destination. Tourism Saskatchewan prioritizes and incentivizes
events that increase tourism revenues and drives significant overnight
visitation to the province.
Tourism Saskatchewan provided $300,000
to secure the 2025 BKT tires World Men’s Curling Championship in Moose Jaw from
March 29th to April 6th, 2025. Bid partners included the Temple Gardens Centre
or the Moose Jaw Events Centre, the city of Moose Jaw, and Visit Moose Jaw. The
estimated event impact of the championships is $11.7 million to the
province.
Tourism Saskatchewan is implementing a
new event strategy that focuses support on growing business events aligned with
the province’s sectors of strength, enhancing Saskatchewan’s reputation as a
major event host, and increasing the economic impact of investments. The
strategy supports the development and expansion of events, conventions, and
trade shows, particularly business events and incentive travel in alignment
with Saskatchewan’s sectors of strength, including advanced manufacturing,
agriculture, life sciences, technology, and natural resources. The tourism
development program supports established tourism businesses to expand and
diversify their operations by supporting the development of new experiences,
expanding seasonal operations, and increasing core business capacity.
[21:00]
Funding support of up to $40,000 per
business is provided through an application-based adjudicated process. Since
its inception in 2019, Tourism Saskatchewan has provided over $4 million
in financial support to 135 successful applicants through this program. In 2024‑25
a total of 32 applicants were received with 18 tourism businesses funded for a
total investment of $683,650.
An additional $320,000 was provided by
Tourism Saskatchewan to eight tourism businesses to support the tourism growth
program administered through PrairiesCan [Prairies Economic Development
Canada]. Total project investment including funding from businesses,
PrairiesCan, and Tourism Saskatchewan was just under $3.8 million.
Tourism Saskatchewan supports smaller
cities and rural communities by providing research, marketing programs,
training, and consulting assistance. Depending on community interest and local
and regional tourism assets, Tourism Saskatchewan offers customized services
for a specific area.
Tourism Saskatchewan recognizes the
importance of Indigenous tourism in the province and works closely with
Indigenous Destinations Saskatchewan, an Indigenous tourism association founded
in 2023 to develop and promote Indigenous tourism experiences in the province.
Authentic Indigenous tourism experiences contribute to reconciliation by
promoting economic autonomy for Indigenous communities and creating platforms
for social revitalization.
Tourism Saskatchewan provides support to
Indigenous tourism businesses through the development of new markets and
experiences, training, export readiness capacity, content development, and
funding for experimental development and co‑operative marketing projects.
Tourism Saskatchewan provides training
and education in tourism throughout the province for businesses and
individuals. Tourism Saskatchewan trained more than 16,000 people last year in
courses that enhanced capacity and skills. Building a strong and well-trained
and motivated tourism workforce is fundamental to delivering on the brand
promise made to visitors and improving destination competitiveness.
Labour shortages within the tourism
sector continue to challenge business growth, especially in rural and remote
areas. To help industry address these shortages, Tourism Saskatchewan delivers
programming to increase awareness of tourism careers, particularly among high
school students.
Tourism Saskatchewan has partnered with
the Saskatchewan Distance Learning Centre to develop tourism 30 online high
school curriculum and make it accessible to rural communities as well as an
accompanying work placement. Additional career resources have been developed
for middle year students across the province in partnership with Saskatchewan
industry education council.
A new work readiness pilot program
funded by the Ministry of Immigration and Career Training was launched in the
fall to continue the legacy of the Ready to Work program. The project works
with businesses and employment agencies to offer entry-level tourism training
to under-represented groups. The goal is to train and provide follow-up support
to 100 participants by September 2025.
Tourism Saskatchewan is partnering with
Tourism HR Canada in a pan-Canadian training initiative to increase awareness
and access for people with disabilities to enter the tourism workforce. A
series of training sessions will be held to reach 40 businesses within
Saskatchewan by the end of 2026.
Tourism Saskatchewan hosted a series of
free, online webinars and workshops to address a range of important topics,
from digital marketing and front-line sales to employee recruitment tips. These
resources help businesses learn ways to market and sell their products, meet
customer expectation, and recruit and retain staff.
In June of 2024 Tourism Saskatchewan
introduced a new workforce development strategy. This five-year strategy
focuses on seven strategic priorities to help the tourism sector recruit,
train, and retain qualified workers. A skilled and competitive workforce
enhances visitor experience and improves destination competitiveness. Combined
with training initiatives and tourism career promotion, these efforts support a
vibrant tourism industry in the province.
I appreciate the time that has been
afforded to discussing Tourism Saskatchewan’s leadership and work. Thank you
for your attention.
Chair
B. McLeod: — Thank you, Minister. And I’m going
to open . . . Apologize for my loss of my notes here, but I have it
now. Thank you so much for those opening comments, Minister Ross. And I will
now open the floor to questions and I will invite MLA McBean . . .
Good man. All right. The floor is yours.
Don McBean: — Well thank you
very much, Minister Ross. That’s very impressive. Two-thirds of the way through
I thought we should be done, like we can all go home. No, you’ve covered an
incredible amount of what it is that Tourism Saskatchewan is about. We do have
a number of questions. I’m renowned for being rather random and chaotic about
the delivery of lots of what it is that I bring to bear on whoever happens to
be in the room with me, but we’ll try to keep it somewhat sequential.
Nice to meet you, Mr. Potts, who seems
to be a long-standing driver behind Tourism Saskatchewan. And I’m very much
looking forward . . . This is my first evening in committee. As my
colleague said earlier, you know, we’re newbies. You’ll be patient with us. I
look forward to this evening just to be such a great learning experience for me
to understand.
But I get the idea that Saskatchewan
does have a brand — a question that we’ll come back to in a bit — of hunting
and fishing. And I’ve got my scribble notes and all sorts of questions, but you
know, I think I want to start with the first one.
The dollar value of Tourism Saskatchewan
this year is reduced from last year, which was reduced from the year previous.
And I’m just curious how that fits into, you know, with all other inflationary
pressures, etc., how does that fit and how does that dollar value become
determined in the creation of the budget? Do you have a specific amount? Maybe
even the numbers. You know the numbers.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Yeah, thank you for the question. I’ll start with a statement, and then I’ll
turn it over to Mr. Potts to elaborate. So Tourism Saskatchewan made a number
of operational changes that enabled us to contribute $325,000 in savings to the
government’s overall financial target. As a result of these efforts, budget
2025‑26 has an overall surplus of $12 million. So I’ll let Mr. Potts
. . .
Jonathan Potts:
— Okay and thank you. Jonathan Potts, CEO Tourism Saskatchewan. I appreciate
the opportunity to speak to you both tonight and meet everyone on the
committee. And I apologize to Mr. McBean. I know you seemed to imply you might
be loquacious. Normally I am too. I’ve had laryngitis all weekend so I’m going
to see how long I last here tonight. So I might be calling on some of the other
officials too.
So a few things. In addition to what the
minister just said, we looked at our budget and found ways to meet the target.
So from a destination development side, we offer something called an AWEshop.
There are a number of AWEshops in a given year. Those are advance experience
development training for tourism businesses, and something we’ve been offering
for a number of years now.
Typically we offer them related to a
specific focus. So it might be Indigenous tourism. It might be outfitting. It
might be, you know, any number of different things. So we try to have them
themed. This year we are just going to combine two of our intended groups into
one. That saves us $50,000 right there. So you know, we were able to find
efficiencies.
Also moving towards the 325,000, in our
destination development program we also have special projects — tourism growth
projects, growth partnership projects. The federal tourism growth program is
going into the third year of a three-year program, so this was something that
was offered sort of coming out of COVID. And Tourism Saskatchewan has partnered
with the federal government to support businesses through this program, but it
is decreasing our investment as the federal investment is decreasing over the current
fiscal year as well. So it’s a matching program, so with declining federal
support, we also are declining our support.
We are also in destination and workforce
development. We have a business site, or what we call a business hub for the
industry to come and get data, statistics, information about the tourism
industry. And we had intended to do a content strategy with a consultant in the
coming year. What we’ve done is realign our resources internally to allow for
us to do the work ourselves and not utilize the services of a consultant.
Also on workforce development, we do
career awareness, as the minister mentioned. So we’ve developed promotional
videos and advertising in that vein. We had notionally intended to do about
$25,000 worth of content development there. Frankly we’ve got a lot of content
we’ve developed over the last couple of years, so we’re just going to reuse
what we have. We haven’t saturated the market with it or anything. So it’s just
being a little bit lean in our approach.
[21:15]
One last piece is systems consulting, so
reducing our budget for systems consulting in a workforce development area.
This allows that we’re still able to do the work we need to do. It’s just using
research and recommendations from our workforce development strategy to
prioritize new training developed over the fiscal year. We’re just reducing the
amount of training development, but we’ve got a lot in the hopper already. So
you know, it’s a little bit of a hit to the workforce development program, but
one that we can manage.
Don McBean: — Great. Near the
beginning of that, you said something to the effect of recognizing efficiencies
of operational changes to hit the target. I’m curious: the dollar value came
first, and then you fit that? And maybe that goes to what I think I understood
from Minister Ross, that some of the savings . . . I heard the
number, the $12 million surplus that created a balanced budget. Are those
ideas overlapping somewhere?
First of all the $12 million, I’m
thinking maybe I heard that Tourism shrunk in order to allow a bit of a surplus
in the overall budget. And then the second one is, Mr. Potts, that there
. . . Do I call you Deputy Minister Potts or CEO Potts?
Jonathan Potts: — You can just call
me Mr. Potts.
Don McBean: — Mr. Potts. Okay,
we’ll go with Mr. Potts. The dollar
target came first and then you discovered the efficiencies that could allow
that. Okay? I’ll let you see if you can understand my question.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Thank you for the question. So as a result of these efficiencies that we were
able to create, we were able to contribute to the surplus. And I just felt it
was very important to share that information and that you had this information
tonight. Mr. Potts, do you have anything to add?
Jonathan Potts:
— Yeah, I think from our perspective, you know, we’re always looking for
operational efficiencies. You know, even if our budget had remained the same or
increased, we would be looking for efficiencies. So this is normal course of
business for us to find efficiencies within our work.
Don McBean: — Okay. I certainly
have no qualms with do-it-yourself, doing something in-house. We tend to, you
know, to reach out for experts all the time when we had the experts right with
us, so that makes sense. But again — and this is me just trying to understand how
the whole budget gets created — is the budget the result of the demand? Or is
the budget the result of, here’s a dollar value; now make it work? If that’s
not too vague a question.
Jonathan Potts:
— Yeah, and thank you again, Mr. McBean, for your question. I’ll maybe
reiterate and expand upon what I said previously.
You know, every year we look for
efficiencies in what we’re doing. We knew that this year we wanted to find some
efficiencies, particularly in our workforce development area. When I mentioned
the content strategy . . . And like you said, you know, reaching out
and getting a consultant to do work, you know, we do that for different
projects in every fiscal year.
A number of years ago, we developed a
content strategy for our consumer website, so for the website that any visitor
would want to go to. So we have a lot of that in-house expertise. So you know,
when we looked at it this year and said, if we were finding efficiencies where
would we find them, that was a good opportunity. And we looked for how we could
realign some of our internal human resources and so forth to make that happen.
And thankfully, I think, through some
great work from our management team and our in-scope team as well, we were able
to do that. So like I say, it’s fairly normal course of business for us to do
that and to realize those efficiencies.
Don McBean: — Okay. Once more
and then I’ll let go of this. You may or may not know — I’ve broadcast it far
and wide — I come out of public education. I was a principal starting in 2017.
I learned how to run a school with less and less money every year. Are you
doing Tourism Saskatchewan because you have less money available? I think
that’s . . . yeah, that’s going to be my question. You’ve been
assigned less money so you make it work.
Jonathan Potts:
— I think it works two ways. So I think we always look for efficiencies and if
money’s tight, we’ll always try and meet any target or any goal that we’d want,
that we’re asked to do. But in this case, we very much were looking for
efficiencies.
Don McBean: — Okay. I’ll leave
it there. I’m a little curious if I go to the expense side, the efficiencies,
you know, the nice little pie chart. Marketing and communications, 51 per cent.
That makes sense. That’s kind of what tourism is about is advertising and getting
your name out there. The workforce development makes sense.
Executive
office and corporate services. And maybe I just didn’t know where to look, but
29 per cent of the overall budget. Is there a breakdown on that? Is some sort
of breakdown available? What it is that, you know, the salary ranges of various
members, the executive, etc. Is that an available breakdown?
Jonathan Potts:
— Again, thank you, Mr. McBean, for the question. So going to the pie chart
that you referenced, you’re right, marketing is the thing that we’re most well
known for, and obviously that’s our greatest expense or area of expenditure.
In terms of what executive office and
corporate services covers, so obviously my small area, which is myself and
executive assistant or director of corporate office, but also includes our IT
[information technology] area which, in Tourism Saskatchewan, we call
e-business and technology. So we’re very — and I’ll touch on this in a second —
we’re very data-driven, and we have a lot of sort of IT operating behind the
curtains, if you will. So our IT, our platforms that we use, you know, and
licensing those platforms is a considerable expense.
Research, something I’m always proud to
say — and I’m sure we’ll touch on a little bit more later — you know, of any
province and territory in this country, I’d say we have the best research team
in the country by far and are recognized for that. So we try to make
data-driven decisions and, you know, always strategize based on where the
numbers lead us.
Finance, obviously our finance team,
finance and accounting team is in there. Corporate services, you know, standard
corporate services you would expect. And then things like rent and operational
expenses are also included in there.
I think you also asked about salary
ranges. So Public Accounts will have all out-of-scope salaries, which, you
know, I would leave to you to look at. And then our collective bargaining
agreement, which is up for renegotiation in the current fiscal, is where our
in-scope salaries can be found. And obviously there’s a bit of a relationship
between the two, such that in-scope salaries and out-of-scope salaries tend to
move a little bit in relation to each other.
Don McBean: — So 29 per cent of,
what is it? I’ve lost the number. 19 million? No, sorry, 20,095,000. I do
the math on that, a third of this, so 6 million — let’s call it 6.5 — will
be going to the departments. The focuses that you articulated there. Okay.
[21:30]
You directed me to find some of the
salary things. You talked up the IT and the research. Is there a place where
these are broken down? Salary, IT, research, corporate services, rent?
Jonathan Potts:
— I don’t have those numbers with me tonight, sir. Certainly I can speak to
some of the numbers. Overtimes, things like what we spend on licensing IT
platforms, and so forth. But I don’t have that, salaries broken out by area.
Don McBean: — But it could be
available if we made the request?
Jonathan Potts:
— Again thank you for the question. I don’t have it at my fingertips, but I’ve
just conferred with our other officials, and we can get that answer to you
before the end of the evening.
Don McBean: — Fantastic. So does
it need to be requested to be tabled, or if it’s coming that quickly, I don’t
think it’s tabled, is it?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
No.
Don McBean: — There we go. I’m
learning some of this. The other pie chart I’m a little curious, the other is
. . . What does that make it? $70,000? So there’s a revenue of
$70,000 coming from some place. And I was just curious what that even means,
and if it’s an area that could be exploited or expanded or how . . .
And I get that tourism is really a
government expenditure more than anything, but that the money is there and has
a little sliver of 1 per cent, I’m curious about that if you could explain what
that is.
And I’m sorry. Partnership revenue, not
the other. I was looking at the wrong line, but while we’re at it, maybe the
other as well.
Jonathan Potts: — All right. So in
terms of partnership revenue, it’s a great question because this is one I ask
my team all the time. Reality with partnership revenue is we’ve lost some
federal funding in the last year or so because federal transfers, our federal
support for certain programs has gone away.
So if I look at our federal partner,
Destination Canada, their budget has been greatly reduced I think from about
105 million to 65 million, something like that. Please don’t quote me
on the number. But a lot of their partnership program dollars went away.
So the minister in her opening remarks
mentioned the prairie angling partnership, something we did with Travel
Manitoba and Destination Canada. That was $250,000 that we had access to each
of the last three years, but that program came to an end. And believe me, we
tried very hard to get that to continue because we see the value in it. But we
were unable to maintain that.
We also had some federal support also go
away in the workforce development area. So that also led to a reduction. So
we’re always looking for partnership revenue, and you know, it just so happens
that this year is probably one of the thinnest years in terms of partnership
revenue that we’ve been able to budget for.
In terms of other revenue, you know,
that’s things like interest on our operating surplus and so forth, which is a
little higher this year than it might have been in years past just given
interest rates and so forth. That is not one that we could really expect to
grow, but our partnership revenue is the one we would want to focus on.
Don McBean: — There you go. You
clarified for me. When I see partnership I wasn’t thinking of anything so
obvious as partnering with federal or other provinces. I guess I was thinking
of private partnerships, which is probably rather a sort of tangential part of
that.
Okay, there’s a fairly straightforward
question — and I think, Minister Ross, you spelled this out but I didn’t
scribble it down fast enough — sort of the geographical focus of Tourism
Saskatchewan, the marketing campaign. I had made the note to myself, you know,
what is intra-Saskatchewan? What is, you know, Canada-wide? And I think that
you gave some of those numbers, but if you wouldn’t mind.
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Can I ask, Mr. McBean, are you looking for just geographical breakdown? Or
dollars? Or what data are you looking for?
Don McBean: — Well I think in
your opening remarks you talked about a percentage. I scribbled down 40 per
cent. So if you . . . Did you not? Something to the effect of 40 per
cent of the tourism dollars coming in were within Saskatchewan. Is that what
you mean?
Hon. Alana
Ross: —
Yeah, thank you.
Don McBean: — Yeah. Sorry.
Jonathan Potts:
— Again thanks for the question. So like most provinces, the only exception
being Prince Edward Island, our resident market is our strongest market. So
it’s about 60 per cent of visitor spending — 70 per cent of visits, 60 per cent
of visitor spending. Canadian travellers, or other Canadian travellers if you
will, make up 26 per cent of our market, and also a little bit less in terms of
the revenue component. United States visitors make up 9 per cent of our
visitation. And again that’s primarily driven by outfitted fishing and hunting.
So Wollaston Lake Lodge is a great example there. And nearly 5 per cent of our
market is overseas.
Don McBean: — The other
breakdowns you gave as sort of volume and then dollar.
Jonathan Potts:
— Yeah.
Don McBean: — Now you’ve made me
curious about the 9 per cent American. That would be the volume of people?
Jonathan Potts:
— That is the volume, yes. Or sorry. Pardon me. That’s visitor spending. I
apologize. So 60 per cent visitor spending in Saskatchewan, 26 per cent visitor
spending is Canadian market. I misspoke there, so I misled you. Nine per cent
is US, and 5 per cent is overseas.
Don McBean: — Okay, yeah. Well
it doesn’t matter which way the question went. One of the things that I
highlighted two or three times as I was going through and trying to figure out
what it is that we’re looking at here is the high-value tourism. And that’s I
think obviously some of the hunting and fishing, for many of the reasons that
you already . . . Are there other high-value tourists that we’re
targeting, that we’re looking for? Markets that we’re trying to develop?
Jonathan Potts:
— One hundred per cent. And I would start with sort of an umbrella statement,
that we’re looking for quality over quantity, if you will. So when we talk
about a high-value guest, you know, we’re . . . Saskatchewan is
Saskatchewan, and we’re a fantastic destination but we’re not Disneyland,
right. We’re not a place that’s going to attract millions and millions and
millions of people. What we want are the people that can come here for the
things that we do best.
So fishing and hunting is one of those
things. We have a reputation across North America, especially in the US, on
those two topics. So we know that when we market down there, when we do good
work down there, we’ll continue to see people coming up here and spending lots
of money.
So we view that as a niche market. And
we talk about our niche market strategy. But beyond that we want to develop
more niche markets. So Saskatchewan is also — it’s no surprise — we’re the Land
of Living Skies. Astrotourism is a big, growing area for us and that really
took off over COVID.
It was already starting, but it took off over COVID.
So you know, Saskatchewan is home to two dark sky preserves: Cypress
Hills and Grasslands National Park. And frankly you can go to most parts of
Saskatchewan and get pretty good night sky viewing, right, especially if you go
north too. So you know, that’s something that we’re working with the industry
to develop in terms of a saleable experience, is there’s operators that do that
already. But we want to see that become more and more of an experience that
Saskatchewan offers and we can capitalize on as a province.
So we used to have a colleague, who’s since retired, who called
. . . He was a bird hunter, so he called bird hunting “armed
ecotourism.” But we also want to encourage unarmed ecotourism as it relates to
birding. So you know, we’re on the central flyway,
central bird flyway. We are home at different points in the year to one of the
most diverse array of bird species on the continent, you know. And you can
think of iconic species like whooping cranes, for example. So there’s a real
opportunity there for Saskatchewan. And again that’s a real growing segment,
real opportunity for Saskatchewan to do better on something that just naturally
exists within the province.
In terms of some other areas too, I
think the minister touched on, you know, business travel. And that’s something
that we really want to support Regina and Saskatoon in. And you know, I might
leave some of the details on that until later, but suffice to say that we’ve
invested more and more support into that area to help the two cities attract
more business travel — more business events, conferences, conventions, that
type of thing — which we see as having long-term benefit for the province.
So attracting people to, you know,
conferences may be related to research that goes on at the U of S
[University of Saskatchewan], things like mining, oil and gas, agriculture, and
so forth, things that we do very well in the province. Those present not just
an opportunity to get people in hotels and restaurants but also to grow
industry in the longer term by creating connections there.
[21:45]
Don McBean: — You’re setting up
my next question every time. Because I had written down, you know, whether
explicitly or implicitly, is tourism sort of part of that bigger business plan?
Is tourism part of the sweetener? Is it like a loss leader sometimes? You’re
talking about having conventions. Is there an overlap or an interlacing of the
tourism efforts with business, business development?
Jonathan Potts:
— I was a little worried when you said I was setting up your next question that
it was a trick. That was going to be a good thing or a bad thing, but that
turned out to be a good thing in this case.
There’s a number of different things
that business travel does for Saskatchewan, you know. Like I alluded to that
exchange of ideas, that exchange of talent in some cases. I think you’re from
Saskatoon. I’ll use that as an example. So with the synchrotron, you know,
there’s been a number of conferences, and I know . . . I go back 20‑odd
years to when I was a consultant living in Saskatoon. I think I worked on the
first strategy for trying to attract conferences and conventions related to
that asset.
But having business events also
increases knowledge of the province. So it increases potentially again talking
about interlacing potential investment for the province. So you think of
. . . You’re bringing investors and leaders in particular industries
here and they see the opportunities to invest. You know, ideally that can lead
to . . . Whether it’s a Canadian investment, foreign direct
investment, and so on is a good thing.
In our events strategy we are looking
for, you know, alignment with some of Saskatchewan’s key areas of strength,
like agriculture, life sciences. You think of VIDO [Vaccine and Infectious
Disease Organization] again at the U of S, you know, technology and natural
resources, and so forth.
We have also in the last few years
contracted a European-based lead generator to secure qualified leads for
international business events for the province. That’s particularly again for
Regina and Saskatoon. So that’s a firm that’s based there, has connections
throughout Europe, you know, has a foot on the ground and can make those
connections to events that we might otherwise not see here in the province.
So since June 2023, that lead generator
has produced 64 qualified business leads for the province for those two cities.
And that’s ahead of the target that we had set for that company when we hired
them. So 30 per cent of those leads are in the life sciences sector, so again a
real area of strength for the province.
So just when I talk about qualified
leads, just in case that’s not clear what I mean, this isn’t just saying,
here’s some random event that Saskatchewan could go after. This is something
where they work with local people here to ensure that there’s alignment between
the event itself, the resource or alignment here, and then ideally someone that
can lead it from a local committee.
One other thing I should mention with
that too is, you know, I mentioned that funding from Destination Canada has
actually been decreasing. But they did introduce a new international convention
attraction fund in 2024, and it provides financial support to incentivize bids
for major cities throughout the country. We’re working closely with Discover
Saskatoon and Tourism Regina to help them meet the threshold for events that
would qualify for that funding. And typically what that is is an event that
sells out the city from a hotel perspective, so it’s basically selling all the
beds in the city for that event.
Don McBean: — And maybe I just
misheard, but there was an acronym. You said an international or a European
company. Would it be “dree” or . . .
Jonathan Potts: — Sorry.
Don McBean: — You said when you
introduced the European company that has provided 64 leads, etc., was there a
name to that?
Jonathan Potts: — Sorry, I didn’t
provide the name.
Don McBean: — Oh.
Jonathan Potts: — Yeah, I said
international lead generator is what the term . . .
Don McBean: — Oh, I heard
“leads” and thought that was the name. Sorry.
Jonathan Potts: — No, they are from
England. They’re close to Leeds but not Leeds.
Don McBean: — And they’re not
American.
Jonathan Potts: — Not American.
Don McBean: — Which is
important.
Jonathan Potts: — Yeah.
Don McBean: — Well so sort of that question came out of
questions that had been provided in terms of . . . And so maybe I’ll
just ask them specifically.
Is
the question not clear? It’s usually not. What is the policy regarding Tourism
Saskatchewan providing free services or products to other stakeholders and
individuals outside the corporation? Does Tourism Saskatchewan provide any free
products or services for anyone in the government other than the minister?
Policy regarding staff of tourism accepting free products.
I
took all of those and sort of . . . I took all of those and put them
into the lost lead, pot-sweetening idea. But I’m curious if there are specific
regulations and direction in those regards.
Jonathan
Potts:
— So first of all, yeah, we have policies around accepting gifts, free
services, that kind of thing. We don’t do it. And we report on anything that,
you know, might qualify for that. That’s part of our policy.
In
terms of providing free services, which is the part I was a little bit hung up
on there at the start, that’s part of our mandate, essentially to provide
. . . You know, there’s over 3,000 tourism attractions, businesses,
and events in the province.
So
you know, when I talk about our research team, we look at our marketing team,
our workforce development team, and so forth. You know, we’re part of
government but we exist to serve our industry and to serve the workforce and potential
workforce that’s coming into the industry. So in terms of providing free
services, you know, that’s the bulk of what we do.
Don McBean: — Okay. If I might then, just because you
made a point of talking about the data collection and the research team. What
is it that sets Saskatchewan apart in that sense compared to other provinces?
Jonathan
Potts:
— Sure. I think, if you will, when you’re the little guy, you have to fight a
little harder sometimes and you have to be a little bit smarter. So we’ve put a
real emphasis on having a robust research team. So just to speak to
. . . I’m really talking about two or three individuals.
So
you know, the head of that team is the Chair of Destination Canada’s national
research committee, is on sort of the association that looks after research
across Canada and the US — TTRA [Travel and Tourism Research Association],
tourism and travel research association — is on the board.
Other
individual is . . . We use an economic impact calculator when we look
at the value of potential events, bringing events to the province, and also
assessing events after they have occurred. So when you hear numbers like the
minister mentioned for the BKT tires curling event that just concluded in Moose
Jaw, our team has expertise in that.
So
our person that looks after doing that economic impact calculation is one of
three “superusers” in Canada, as designated by the organization that develops
that calculator. We’ve modified it for Saskatchewan’s usage, but
. . . and also has presented at conferences in the United States on
how to use the model and on economic impact calculation. So you know, for
Saskatchewan, if you think of 13 provinces and territories and 50 states, we
punch pretty hard in that area.
We
also integrate our research and data into — and this is something that we’re
continually improving upon — but into business intelligence. So I know she’s
watching, and I know she’s going to reprimand me when I get this wrong. But you
go from sort of being able to predict an outcome to being able to not just
predict but actually, like, know very well what the outcome is going to be with
the research in terms of if you take a certain course of action, spend a
certain amount of money, and expect a certain result. So you know, that’s an
area that combines some of that, the IT and the e-business knowledge on our
team.
So
we’re constantly looking at if we do digital marketing, you can kind of do an
A/B test and try two different looks at a piece of advertising or content. And
then if one is performing better, or performing better with a certain
demographic, you can continue to use that one instead of the other one and get
better bang for your buck, if you will.
Don McBean: — Okay. Well congratulations, I’m sure.
And again, when I was looking through all these documents, there are — if I
find the same page — you know, there’s the current and then there’s the
targeted. And I’m curious, you know, on the performance measures of the various
goals. They’ve been broken down. I’m certainly not about to go through these in
any sort of detail, but it’s probably more of a general question.
[22:00]
Obviously
you’re not going to target a decrease ever. But if I pick angling and hunting
licences and you’re going up 800 licences, does that number just get picked
from somewhere, or is that driven by data research? You know, you’re going to
boost scores of relevancy in training or the number of individuals. I’m curious
if that’s part of what you talk about as your data-driven research and
development, yeah.
Jonathan
Potts:
— So I’ll touch on those because there’s two separate pages there, I think,
you’re looking at, if I’m not mistaken, right?
Don McBean: — There are four pages of goals. I just
picked some as an example.
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah, so I just want to respond to the example. So typically, yes, those are
data-driven. All those are data-driven. They can also be strategy-driven,
informed by data, so a little less direct from data itself, if you will. So
data informs the strategy. Strategy informs the targets.
And
you know, you touched on geopolitics before, and when we set the targets for
’25‑26 for angling and hunting licences that hadn’t come into play. But
certainly I think as we look at that number now, it probably comes into play a
little bit more even. So you know, we look at what the data tells us and then
we look at any other sort of environmental factors if you will — and by
environment, I mean that type of environment — that can impact the numbers.
So
what we’ve seen is solid increases in that US hunting and angling licence
sales, so about 5 per cent between ’23 and ’24, I believe. But we also know
that the curve has slowed down a bit. Again coming out of . . . It
took a massive hit after 9/11 and took many, many years — I’d say probably 15
to 20 years — to come back. And it still hasn’t really hit the levels that it
was at, at that time.
It
took another swoon 2008‑2009 in the housing affordability crisis, or the
mortgage crisis in the US, and then COVID again. So you know, we’ve done some
dips and doodles with those licence sales, but we feel this number is pretty
solid. And again based on trending, based on data, but
also based on some of the sort of geopolitical realities as well.
With regards to some of the workforce
measures that you pulled out, you know, things like the training relevancy
score, you know, that one’s sitting at a 4.59 out of 9 so we don’t feel it can
get too terribly much higher. Number of people trained annually, that’s again
part of the workforce development strategy as I mentioned. That was informed by
data and then targets were set in that strategy based on that data, so our
growth target for this year is based on strategy which is based on data, if
that makes sense.
Don McBean: —
It does. And probably I’m only asking the question because, even though I was a
schoolteacher and a school administrator, I wasn’t much of a data guy. So I’m
curious more than anything.
Because it’s so late and my brain is
shutting down, I’m going to invite Madame Roy, who was just bringing to my
attention some of the things. And I invite her to take the lead on that for a
moment.
Jacqueline Roy: —
Sure. So thanks again. Just a few clarification points. We can definitely find
those salaries from Public Accounts, and thanks for referencing that. It’s not
a problem. Just wondering however about a list of . . . or what
percentage of the executive team receives a bonus, and if so, what would be the
amount of the bonus they received last year versus what we’re expected to give
them this year? Does that make sense?
Jonathan Potts:
— Yeah, and it’s an easy answer: zero and zero. So we don’t have a bonus
structure within our organization.
Jacqueline Roy: —
Okay, so that’s such a great news. No incentive structure whatsoever?
Jonathan Potts:
— In our organization, and I think across government, there’s a performance
increase that you can look at that would roll into your salary for the
following year. But there’s not a bonus per se.
Jacqueline Roy: —
So would I be correct in . . . Like, you’d be referencing how some of
the other kind of off-spins have a performance-based incentive number, correct?
Jonathan Potts: — Sorry, I just missed . . .
Did you say “off-spin”? I missed that word there.
Jacqueline
Roy:
— So a lot of things like Crown corporations will have that performance-based
incentive number yearly.
Jonathan
Potts:
— I couldn’t speak for them, to be honest. I can just speak for what we do.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. I’m just trying to understand,
when you say a performance-based review, is there an incentive or is there a
monetary amount attached to that?
Jonathan
Potts:
— It’s a salary increase tied to performance.
Jacqueline Roy: — Salary increase tied to performance.
Okay. Thank you. And about what percentage is the salary increase tied to
performance, of the Public Accounts figure?
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah so, again, thank you for the question. And just trying to make sure I
answer this properly. But again, it’s a performance increase tied to salary. So
definitely no bonus. It all shows up in Public Accounts. There’s a salary range
for each out-of-scope position, so at a certain point a person maxes out or
potentially maxes out in theory. You know, the range of increase is
. . . I won’t say relatively small, but it’s not large either. You’re
talking single digits, and lower single digits typically.
It’s
a fairly straightforward process, but it’s the same structure — it’s part of
what I was just conferring on — across government in ministries and so forth.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, thanks for that. That does sort
of clarify where I’m going. And I guess the other point I was going to make is
. . . We can definitely draw from Public Accounts the salary, but I
was wondering, as you pointed to, that there still is an out-of-scope grid
there. What is the cap on the CEO and on the vice-president’s salary grids?
Like what’s the top end amount on those grids?
Jonathan
Potts:
— That’s a great question. I don’t know. I’m not there, so I haven’t really
. . .
Jacqueline Roy: — Would it be possible to get just those
grids maybe tabled? Would a week be fair to say? Or by the end of the session?
Jonathan
Potts:
— I think so.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay.
Hon. Alana Ross: — Hi. We do have the ranges here. So if
you’re looking at a vice-president, a vice-president’s salary will range from
121,425 to 182,137. The executive director is 102,693 to 154,040.
Jacqueline Roy: — 102,693. Sorry I didn’t catch the rest.
Hon. Alana Ross: — 102,693 to 154,040.
Jacqueline Roy: — And then for the CEO?
Hon. Alana Ross: — It’s set by the Lieutenant Governor in
Council.
Jacqueline Roy: — So set by the Lieutenant Governor.
Would it be possible for us to get that information just for a week from now?
[22:15]
Jonathan Potts: — So two things in response to that. So
first of all the CEO’s salary is set as a deputy minister equivalent range, so
we don’t set it within Tourism Saskatchewan. Our board doesn’t set it, but it
is determined based on, you know, equivalent roles within government. So then
the numbers, it’s a range of 164 to 214,000.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, perfect. Thank you for that. And
would the travel allowance be the same as other areas around government where
there’s sort of two options? It’s either paid out per kilometre or there is a
monthly travel allowance for your private vehicle just handed over sort of
monthly. Which one is in this budget? Does that make sense?
Jonathan Potts: — For me
personally?
Jacqueline Roy: — For any of
the executive team and the executive team’s assistants. Yeah.
Jonathan Potts: — It’s the
former rather than the latter.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. Per
kilometre?
Jonathan Potts: — Per
kilometre.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay,
awesome. Thank you. Are there any non-monetary benefits provided to members of
the senior executive team that you can think of?
Jonathan Potts: — No.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay.
Thank you. Just clarifying for now. Yeah.
Just circling back a little bit to Matador
Network, and nothing against Matador Network in particular, just some concern
because my understanding is it’s an American-based company headquartered in San Francisco,
California. And I know the government has directed to look at other
alternatives.
Wondering
if the budget considered looking at places like Narcity in Montreal or even
. . . I know Destination Canada offers a lot of that fantastic stuff.
I mean there’s quite a few examples we could cite. Is there an explanation as
to why the Matador Network is the one that we’re going with right now?
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah, and again great question, and I understand where it’s coming from
certainly. You know, what I would say is we’ve been working with that company
for a number of years now. It is the largest tourism publishing network in the
world. So we’ve talked about our niche strategies and going after things like
astrotourism before. So the market we’re trying to reach isn’t necessarily
within Canada. It can be, and certainly Matador Network reaches Canadians as
well as it does Americans or people overseas, but it’s probably superior to,
you know, some of the Canadian options.
I
think you mentioned Narcity out of Montreal. That one is more Canadian focused.
Again that’s great, but it doesn’t achieve what we need it to achieve in this
situation. So if you think of Matador Network as something like . . .
We also work with Nat Geo, like National Geographic, and so forth. There’s
certain niche publications and publishers, you know, they work with niche
content creators as well that we have access to that then come to Saskatchewan
to create great content for us. So it really helps us reach our markets and
achieve some of the visitor expenditure targets that we’re trying to achieve.
Jacqueline Roy: — And understandably so. These are
difficult questions for a lot of us when we’re in the middle of this and sort
of this moral dilemma of where to invest versus obviously capacity.
The
Matador contract, when does it expire or when does it renew next?
Jonathan
Potts:
— So it’s not a contract, per se. It’s an ad buy for us, so it’s sort of on a
one-off basis that we look at an opportunity and invest in that opportunity.
Jacqueline Roy: — And how much was the last ad buy with
Matador?
Jonathan
Potts:
— So the last ad buy was about $300,000 — just over — and it was for
astrotourism like I mentioned, and also for snowmobiling.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. And how much was the last ad buy
for National Geographic?
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah, sorry, we don’t have a current buy with National Geographic, so we
haven’t . . . We didn’t have one last year, so I couldn’t tell you
the number off the top of my head. And I don’t think we have that data
available.
Jacqueline Roy: — Would it be fair to say that you’d be
considering National Geographic going forward?
Jonathan
Potts:
— We’d have to look at the strategic implications of any ad buy, right?
Jacqueline Roy: — Right. Okay. Thank you for that. I’m a
bit of a tech geek myself, so I just have some questions around the servers.
When it comes to tourism I know a lot is involved with the servers and where
they go.
Jonathan Potts: — We didn’t
bring our tech expert here tonight, and I’m definitely not one. So I just want
to try and get the best answer I could for you there.
Jacqueline Roy: — For sure.
Yeah.
Jonathan Potts: — I do know that
we use cloud-based servers, so that’s the first part of my answer. In terms of
really sensitive information, the most we’ve determined . . . And we
look at, you know, our risk strategy. The most sensitive information we have is
for our training programs, so you know, that’s where personal information might
be stored. All of that is held within Canada for people that go through our
workforce development programs.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay, so is any information stored on
servers or clouds in the USA [United States of America]?
Jonathan Potts: — I can tell
you they’re Microsoft cloud-based servers.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay.
Jonathan Potts: — So that’s
. . .
Jacqueline Roy: — Yeah, that
helps. Thanks. Okay, just have a few more questions, and then that’s it from
me. In terms of private partnerships, so obviously we have Matador. Are there
any other American companies with which we have contracts in last year’s budget
that were with American companies that will be intended to be renewed here?
Jonathan Potts: — So we have
a number of different American vendors that we use. So if you think of . . .
Again coming back to fishing and hunting just as an example because I probably
want to delineate a couple different areas here. But if you think of niche markets like
fishing and hunting, you know, absolutely we use some American-based vendors
and publishers to reach American markets. You know, there’s Heartland Waterfowl
in Missouri, just as an example, right. It’s reaching who we’re trying to get
to. So that’s sort of one category.
A
second category would be some of the big players that you would expect. So I
think of Meta and Google as examples. So again we use them because that’s where
the market is, right. The penetration of Meta, you know, whether it’s Facebook,
Instagram, into . . . You know, I look around the room, and I’m
guessing pretty much everybody has those types of accounts. So it’s the best
way to reach people and really drive advertising or content to them.
[22:30]
We
don’t do it on a contract basis though, just to be clear. We do it, you know,
as we are developing campaigns. When we work with our agency of record, Phoenix
Group here in Regina, we purchase space with, for example, Facebook on an
ongoing basis, just not as a contract.
Jacqueline Roy: — Okay. And understanding definitely the
need . . . Understanding the rationale because it’s fishing and
hunting and outfitting and that, still what is sort of the total that we’re
spending on ad buys in the United States when it comes to the categories of
fishing and hunting?
Jonathan Potts: — Yes, so our advertising buy in the US
has been fairly stable the last few years around $1.5 million. Part of
that is aligned as well with WestJet and going forward probably United with the
Denver connection here to Regina. When I say, “tied into that,” it’s when we’re
promoting a fishing experience to somebody in Colorado or maybe Nebraska that
would use the Denver International airport, we just let them know that there’s
a direct flight using that airline, right? So I’m not saying that we’re
spending money with United, just that we make sure that people know there is a
flight.
Jacqueline Roy: — Yeah, just that consumer awareness. In
terms of the other way around, what percentage are we spending on marketing
those American flights to Canadians?
Jonathan
Potts:
— We do not spend any . . .
Jacqueline Roy: — We do not . . . okay.
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah. Yeah.
Jacqueline Roy: — I thought that was the answer. Just
double-checking. Okay.
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah. We’ll leave that to travel agents and our counterparts in the US.
Jacqueline Roy: — That would be . . . that
would be something else for . . . okay. That’s the end of my
questions. Thank you for your time. And handing it back to Don.
Don McBean: — So with the opportunity to look through
my scribble notes, there were a couple of points, and they almost fall together
under the same hat. And it’s just sort of, maybe for my understanding, how
involved Tourism Saskatchewan can be in local events. For example, the Regina
Folk Fest, which is now on pause again. Or maybe it’s officially been
disbanded. I know they didn’t have the event. So that’s one sort of event.
Then
there’s also the construction of the Centre in downtown Saskatoon, which has
been . . . And I recognize that’s a big municipal thing, but I think
the province is quite involved with it as well. And would that even come under
Tourism Saskatchewan? And then the airline was sort of also, you know
. . . What reach does Tourism Saskatchewan have? So I just sort of
had these ideas of, how big a player can Tourism Saskatchewan be in these sorts
of situations?
Jonathan
Potts:
— So I’ve got sort of three different questions there that I’ll try and answer.
How involved in local events? So from the monetary side, we do provide
significant funding to local events. So you know, you could name almost
anything that would come to mind that has a tourism component; we’ve probably
funded it over the years. So that’s the extent of our involvement.
In
terms of the DEED [Downtown Event and Entertainment District], the downtown
entertainment district, that’s not our purview. I just want to be clear about
that. That’s a much sort of broader issue than what we would get involved in.
And
then lastly with airlines, our focus again is on bringing those American
customers up to Canada, getting them to spend their money here, as opposed to
letting anybody in Canada know about those flights. So I would say too, just
maybe to add to that, that the Minneapolis flight to Saskatoon, the largest
identifiable market segment using that flight is Americans coming up to fish
and hunt.
Don McBean: — Okay. Again this is part of my learning
of what Tourism Saskatchewan is and can do, and so I do appreciate very much
your clear and quick responses to those sorts of things.
I
guess just because the Regina Folk Fest is such a favourite event, it’s sad to
see it going down the way it is.
Chair B. McLeod: — I’ll just acknowledge Mr. Potts
again.
Jonathan
Potts:
— Yeah, just coming back to a question you had previously. We got the answer a
few minutes ago, so I wanted to get that in before the end of the evening here.
So that was the executive office and corporate services budget expense
breakdown by department. So administration, 1.97 million. So that includes
things like rent and so forth. Executive office, 0.654 million; HR [human
resources], 0.401; e-business and technology, 2.083; and planning and research,
0.803 for a total of 5.911.
Don McBean: — Which would represent 29 per cent of
the total budget. I’ll count on your good math skills.
Jonathan
Potts:
— Count on Cindy’s, to be honest.
Don McBean: — Yeah. Someone back there is doing the
math.
Well
then that leaves me to maybe the final question, depending on how
enthusiastically you want to . . . I like asking the question of the
waving the magic wand, you know. If there was something that Tourism
Saskatchewan could affect, not a ridiculous wish, but what direction do you see
going forward? What is the area? I know you’ve been talking about all the data
and research that you do to that, but where do you see Tourism Saskatchewan
orienting themselves? As a final question.
Jonathan
Potts:
— I’m going to do this one. Do you want to confer on this one or do you want
. . . I’d be in big trouble if I didn’t check in with the folks
behind me on these questions.
So
you know, I mentioned the niche strategies throughout the evening. That’s
really where we want to go, you know, positioning Saskatchewan as a
destination. We want to be well known. We are well known for fishing and
hunting. We want to be top of mind across the world for astrotourism, for
birding, for across North America for snowmobiling and so forth. So we talked
about our arrows pointing in the same direction. So from a destination
development side, so investing in businesses and working with businesses to
reach those targets, we want to be assisting them in getting to that in that
direction. Same with our workforce development.
And
then lastly I would say, again I would come back to events and especially
business events. You know, we know we can do a good job. We know we have a
great volunteer base here for sporting events, cultural events. The BKT tires
curling event is a perfect recent example, right. I think they knocked it out
of the park in Moose Jaw. Maybe not the best curling analogy, but you know,
they did a fantastic job.
But
you know, on the business events side, again I think we’ve got a role to play
to help Saskatchewan be better known across the world and really bring
expertise here and showcase our expertise, and you know, ideally help drive
some investment and future growth for the province that way.
Chair B. McLeod: — So having reached our agreed-upon
time for consideration of these estimates, we will adjourn consideration of the
estimates for Tourism Saskatchewan. And I’ll ask Minister Ross, do you have any
closing comments?
Hon. Alana Ross: — Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just really
want to thank Jonathan and the officials who have attended with us, attended
here tonight, for all the work that they have done. To the committee members,
it’s been a long night. Thank you so much for hanging in there, and thank you
so much for the courtesy with which you asked the questions. That was greatly
appreciated. And thank you to all the staff members who are here. It’s a long
night for you too. And thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair B. McLeod: — You’re very welcome. And I’ll give
closing comments as well to our opposition members if there’s anything you’d
like to add.
Don McBean: — I would repeat the appreciation and
thanks for everyone for being here. You have no idea how much past my bedtime
this is. But I also am usually up by 5, so that’s my caveat on that.
I
said that a good part of my goal this evening — as well as performing the
estimates questioning that is beholden upon us — was to learn about Tourism
Saskatchewan and I did. And it’s very impressive and gives us lots to think
about.
So
thank you, everyone. Madame Roy, we didn’t ask any questions about francophone
tourism, but we’ll get there. Okay. Thank you very much, everyone.
Chair B. McLeod: — And thank you, everyone, for the
participation. The backbench there, ladies, great wisdom and an in-depth
analysis of all the detail. And Jonathan, you have a great team. And Minister
Ross, be a pleasure to lead that group, so you’re honoured to be able to do it.
So
thank you so much, everyone, for participation here tonight, officials as well.
And my Clerk, I appreciate all the help. This committee stands adjourned to the
call of the Chair.
[The
committee adjourned at 22:43.]
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