CONTENTS
Standing Committee on Crown and
Central Agencies
SaskBuilds and Procurement Vote 13
THIRTIETH
LEGISLATURE
of
the
Legislative Assembly of
Saskatchewan
STANDING
COMMITTEE ON
Hansard
Verbatim Report
No.
5 — Tuesday, April 15, 2025
[The
committee met at 19:29.]
Chair
Steele: — Okay, I’d like to welcome
everyone here tonight. I’m Doug Steele, the Chair. Chris Beaudry will be
joining us shortly. Terri Bromm; Hon. Lori Carr; Don McBean; sitting in for
Jordan McPhail is Matt Love. Did we get a sheet from you, Matt? Yes. Okay,
thank you. And Erika Ritchie.
[19:30]
Okay, consideration of
estimates. Today the committee will be considering the 2025‑26 estimates
and 2024‑25 supplementary estimates no. 2 for vote 13, SaskBuilds
and Procurement, and the 2025‑26 estimates for vote 86, SaskBuilds
Corporation.
General Revenue Fund
SaskBuilds and Procurement
Vote 13
Subvote (SP01)
Chair
Steele: — We will begin with vote
13, SaskBuilds and Procurement, central management and services, subvote
(SP01). Minister Marit is here with his officials. I will remind officials to
identify themselves before you speak and not to touch the mikes. The Hansard
operator will turn the mike on when you will be speaking.
Minister Marit, please make
your opening comments and introduce your officials.
Hon.
David Marit: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m pleased to present the estimates for the Ministry of
SaskBuilds and Procurement for the 2025‑2026 season. Joining me here
today obviously is my deputy minister, Rebecca Carter; assistant deputy
minister of corporate strategy and services, Jill Zimmer; assistant deputy
minister of infrastructure design and delivery, Sara Nichols; assistant deputy
minister of operations and service delivery, Patrick Coulthard; assistant
deputy minister of enterprise business modernization project, Brittany Csada;
acting chief procurement officer and assistant deputy minister of procurement
and management, Maire Coulthard; acting chief information officer and assistant
deputy minister of information technology, David Boehm; executive director of
GEM [government enterprise management] sustainment, Blake Fleischhaker, way
back there; and acting executive director of IT [information technology]
enterprise and project oversight, Tyra Dorosh; Hera Kang — I hope I got that
right here — the executive director of corporate services; and obviously my
chief of staff, James Cherewyk, is here with me.
Mr. Chair, this is my first
year presenting the estimates for our ministry, and I’d like to thank the folks
here with me today as well as their teams for the tremendous work SaskBuilds
and Procurement does. SaskBuilds and Procurement is where infrastructure and
centralized services meet to support government in advancing its growth agenda,
which means it plays a unique role in supporting the investments made through
this year’s budget.
The ministry provides central
coordination and delivery of property management, information technology,
procurement, project management, transportation, and other support services to
government ministries and agencies. In collaboration with SaskBuilds Corporation
and other ministries, SaskBuilds and Procurement integrates and focuses on
infrastructure planning, alternative project delivery models, and best-in-class
contract oversight to maximize value for taxpayers.
Since becoming the Minister
of SaskBuilds and Procurement last November, I’ve learned how important it is
to have a single organization in government to bring these functions together.
For example, consider one of the most important things any government can do:
build infrastructure. Every school, hospital, health centre, and long-term care
centre that we fund requires planning, design, procurement, construction, and
commissioning before it can open to serve the community it’s built in.
The Ministry of SaskBuilds
and Procurement is involved at every stage, and that ensures continuity
throughout each project’s life cycle. SaskBuilds and Procurement plays a very
important role in delivering the essential infrastructure that Saskatchewan people
need.
Budget 2025‑26 is
delivering the largest total capital budget in Saskatchewan history at $4.6 billion.
Funding from this year’s budget will invest in capital projects throughout the
province to deliver important infrastructure for Saskatchewan families and
communities. This includes nearly $1.9 billion in capital projects across
executive government and nearly $2.8 billion in capital projects by the
province’s commercial Crown corporations.
I am pleased to inform the
committee that thanks to this government’s continued investment in
infrastructure, we are on track to meet our growth plan goal of investing $30 billion
by 2030 to serve the growing infrastructure needs of this great province. The
Ministry of SaskBuilds and Procurement not only coordinates the capital
planning for executive government, but the ministry also leads the planning and
delivery of important projects in several sectors in collaboration with other
ministries and sector partners.
The first of these sectors is
health. This year’s budget includes the largest investment ever in health
capital, at more than $656.9 million. This represents an increase of just
over $140 million compared to the previous year. This record investment
will support a number of major projects including 322.4 million for
construction of the Prince Albert Victoria Hospital redevelopment project, 24.4 million
for construction of the Weyburn General Hospital replacement project, 33.8 million
for construction of the La Ronge long-term care project, $40 million to
complete design and begin construction on the Regina long-term care specialized
beds project, and $10 million for construction of the Grenfell long-term
care project.
The Ministry of SaskBuilds
and Procurement is responsible for the planning, design, and delivery of major
health infrastructure projects on behalf of the Government of Saskatchewan and
works in collaboration with partners to deliver a strong quality of life in
Saskatchewan communities.
The next sector I’d like to
highlight for the committee is the education sector, where this year’s budget
is investing $191.3 million in school infrastructure. This includes $140 million
to support ongoing projects including 21 new or consolidated schools and three
major renovations in Balgonie, Regina, and Swift Current; 28.5 million for
the relocatable classroom program to support enrolment growth; 15.3 million
for minor capital renewal projects that allow school divisions to address
structural repairs and renovations to prolong the life of schools across the
province; and 7.5 million in funding to begin preplanning for one new
replacement school and four new schools.
SaskBuilds and Procurement is
proud of its role in completing construction of four new school projects in the
’24‑25 fiscal year, including the new Ducharme School in La Loche, a new
francophone school in Regina, a new K to 12 [kindergarten to grade 12] school
in Carrot River, and the completion of renovations at John Paul II in North
Battleford. We will continue to deliver important education infrastructure this
year and in the years ahead.
This year’s budget also
invests 41 million in post-secondary infrastructure. This includes 24.6 million
for maintenance and upgrades to help meet the needs of students and staff; 7 million
to support new domestic health care training programs, occupational therapy,
and speech-language pathology; 5.6 million for future expansion in health
care training programs; 2 million for planning work for the new
Saskatchewan Polytechnic Joseph A. Remai Saskatoon campus; and a million
dollars for the Carlton Trail College trades building expansion; and 720,000
for planning future initiatives.
Funding of 292.9 million
in government services infrastructure was also announced in this year’s budget.
This investment includes 73.9 million in various water-related
infrastructure projects delivered by the Water Security Agency; 24.6 million
for courts and correctional facilities and equipment delivered by the Ministry
of SaskBuilds and Procurement; 14.2 million for Saskatchewan Housing
Authority to repair and renovate provincially owned housing and develop new
supportive housing units with third-party organizations; and 12.5 million
for capital projects throughout the parks system to improve visitor experience,
including the completion of a new service centre at Nut Point Campground in Lac
La Ronge Provincial Park, new backcountry camping sites at Moose Mountain
Provincial Park, and improvements and upgrades at Narrow Hills, Makwa Lake,
Buffalo Pound, Greenwater Lake, and Danielson provincial parks.
The 2025‑26 budget
invests 435.7 million in transportation infrastructure to be delivered by
the Ministry of Highways, providing 421 million to improve more than 1000
kilometres of Saskatchewan provincial highway network. This includes continued
construction and design of passing lanes and twinning projects to increase
safety and improve traffic flow as well as repairing or rebuilding 18 bridges
and more than 100 culverts around the province.
This year’s budget provides
14.3 million in capital funding to support economic growth and safety
through partnerships with rural and urban municipalities. The 2025‑26
budget also provides 249.9 million in transfers to municipalities for
infrastructure projects through several programs, including the Investing in
Canada Infrastructure Program, Canada Community-Building Fund, and the New
Building Canada Fund.
Through these examples and
many more, our ministry plays an important role in supporting a growing
province, a strong economy, and a better quality of life for all Saskatchewan
people.
And now I’d like to provide
an overview of what this year’s budget means for our ministry’s operational overall.
As the committee will know,
SaskBuilds and Procurement was created to oversee the management and all
infrastructure projects and assets of executive government; standardize
government procurement and IT infrastructure; as well as support several
important long-term government commitments that are set out in Saskatchewan’s
Growth Plan — investing more than $30 billion over the next decade to
build the infrastructure to support a growing province, a strong economy, and a
better quality of life for the people of Saskatchewan; delivering a modern
approach to IT service delivery and procurement; and leveraging government
procurement and supply chains to support the development and growth of
Saskatchewan businesses.
As a central agency,
SaskBuilds and Procurement also supports our clients and partners as they work
to deliver their programs and services to achieve many of the other goals set
out in the growth plan. Our procurement management division conducts all procurements
above trade thresholds for the goods and services, business and technology
solutions, and construction that our client ministries across government need
to serve citizens and communities.
They also maintain lines of
communication with industry and other stakeholders to ensure that the
Government of Saskatchewan procurements ensure best value for the taxpayers and
fair treatment for Saskatchewan suppliers. During 2024‑25 the procurement
management division was involved in awarding more than 650 procurements valued
at approximately $689.5 million.
I’m happy to say, and even
more significant this year, approximately 90 per cent of those procurements,
valued at about 617.6 million, were awarded to Saskatchewan-based
companies, and more than 99 per cent to Canadian companies.
Trade compliance is a key
priority because not only does it ensure our province isn’t penalized in
accordance with the provisions of these agreements, it also helps establish a
more level playing field for Saskatchewan companies and suppliers to do business
outside of our province as well.
Of course it’s almost
impossible to discuss procurement these days without also acknowledging the US
[United States] tariffs and volatility. The Government of Saskatchewan’s
commitment to procuring from Saskatchewan-based companies remains strong. As
mentioned before, Saskatchewan has awarded nearly 90 per cent of all
procurements to Saskatchewan companies over the past five years. When
Saskatchewan companies bid, that number has jumped to 95 per cent.
In the same period the
province has awarded more than 99 per cent of procurements to Canadian
companies, with less than 1 per cent awarded to US companies. For SaskBuilds’s
major projects, all general contractors were Canadian and the majority were
from Saskatchewan. In 2024‑2025 construction year, over 96 per cent of
the value of awarded Highways contracts went to Saskatchewan companies.
In the first three-quarters
of ’24‑25, the Crown sector awarded 1.2 billion, or 75 per cent of
procurements, to Saskatchewan suppliers. About 3 per cent of procurement came
from the United States over the same period.
SaskBuilds and Procurement
continues to work through the details of implementing reporting, and remains
committed to getting the best value for the taxpayer dollars through the fair
and transparent procurement process. Our government will always put Saskatchewan
people and the Saskatchewan companies first.
[19:45]
Tariffs are certainly not the
only challenge that Saskatchewan is facing. Another to note is cyberthreats and
attacks. Cyberattacks are constantly evolving and becoming more sophisticated.
As the IT provider for the Government of Saskatchewan, it is our ministry’s
responsibility to protect government systems, information, data, as well as the
information entrusted to us by the public. Strengthening IT security is
critical to protect citizens, data, and infrastructure from evolving threats,
including ransomware, artificial intelligence, and supply chain attacks. We are
continuing to invest in enhancing our cybersecurity position.
Another important way we
support both our government clients and members of the public is through the
safe, reliable, and professional management at government buildings,
facilities, and properties through our operations and service delivery
division. Our ministry operates and maintains hundreds of government-owned and
leased properties in dozens of communities across Saskatchewan that are used by
client ministries to provide programs and services to citizens.
This division also includes
the Saskatchewan air ambulance service, which provides province-wide emergency
medical evacuation 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The Ministry of SaskBuilds
and Procurement owns and operates a fleet of four King Air 200 aircraft, while
the medical service is administered by the Saskatchewan Health Authority. The
air ambulance service conducts approximately 1,500 patient transfers per year.
This division also provides transportation services through the central vehicle
agency as well as mail and telecommunication services.
As a central agency,
SaskBuilds and Procurement is funded through two mechanisms. First, we have an
expense budget made up of funding appropriated directly to our ministry that is
used to support our own operations. This year total appropriated budget for the
ministry is $155.4 million. The second way we are funded is through
recovery costs. This is funding that is appropriated to our client ministries,
which we recover from them for our services.
I would like to take note
that I say “some of our services” intentionally as things like accommodations
and IT services are part of the recovery costs, but our procurement operations,
for example, are not. They are funded through a direct appropriation, as you
will see reflected in our estimates.
Our ministry also provides
funding for the Provincial Archives of Saskatchewan. 5.1 million is
included in this year’s budget to protect and preserve Saskatchewan’s rich
history through funding to the Provincial Archives of Saskatchewan.
To conclude, I’d like to
acknowledge the essential work that the Ministry of SaskBuilds and Procurement
does and thank the entire team for their continued tremendous contributions to
the province of Saskatchewan. Mr. Chair, I’d now be happy to take questions
about the ministry’s estimates for 2025‑2026. Thank you.
Chair
Steele: — Thank you, Minister. I
will open the floor to questions then. MLA [Member of the Legislative Assembly]
Ritchie.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister for that overview of
activities within SaskBuilds. I appreciate the continuity with the presentation
made last year, and I was able to follow along quite easily in terms of the
information and the numbers that have changed along the way.
Certainly the portion talking
about some of the challenges that SaskBuilds has been experiencing in terms of
sort of recent global events, predominantly the US tariffs that you mentioned,
I just wanted to dive a little bit further in.
You
mentioned that 90 per cent of the procurement undertaken through SaskBuilds is
from Saskatchewan companies, and I find that a little surprising that it’s such
a high number. And I’m wondering if you could tell me, you know, beyond sort of
dealing with sort of a front-facing Saskatchewan company, what sort of
third-party suppliers, and how much you look in to sort of see where products
and services are coming from outside of Saskatchewan, through those
front-facing agencies.
Hon.
David Marit: —
I’m going to start, and then I’m going to turn it over to the deputy and then
she’ll make a few comments. Then we’ll turn it to Maire. Does that sound . . .
I guess, Mr. Chair, I would say I’m somewhat disappointed in the member’s
statement about that she’s surprised that 90 per cent of the procurement is
done by Saskatchewan companies. I’m very proud of the companies here in this
province that are procuring the capital projects here in the province of
Saskatchewan.
And I can probably assure you
— I know we’ve been tracking, as I said in my opening statements — that we do
have a procurement management division that is tracking this. And I can
probably say in very strict confidence that there probably isn’t another jurisdiction
in North America that could say that 90 per cent of the procurement on capital
projects of executive government are done by Saskatchewan companies. So I’ll
end with that, and I’ll turn it to the deputy minister and then to Maire.
Rebecca Carter:
— Thanks, Minister. Thank for the question. Yes, Rebecca Carter, deputy
minister of SaskBuilds and Procurement. So I’ll just clarify again, as the
minister has indicated in his opening comments, the procurement management
division did award 650 procurements. And this was valued at approximately $689.5 million,
and 90 per cent of them went to Saskatchewan companies.
So there are some important
nuances about the role that SaskBuilds and Procurement plays as a procurement
agency in terms of the role that we play across executive government to find
the companies or the suppliers that those are awarded to. So I think the
question that you’re asking is more, once that’s been awarded, what type of
information we have, either through the procurement or other processes, about
any third-party suppliers that would . . . might potentially for
example be a US company. So we would have very limited information on that, and
I’ll turn it over to Maire for a bit more of an explanation. Thank you.
Maire Coulthard:
— Thank you. Maire Coulthard, acting chief procurement officer. So I would say
when it comes to procurements, our procurements are built in a way that we
provide as much innovation as companies can submit. So we provide requirements
or specifications, but we do not dictate in our procurements where suppliers
get their materials or their services, and we don’t determine the solution. We
want our suppliers to bring us solutions to the problems that we’re trying to
solve. So we use a best-value procurement approach, which considers factors
beyond cost to ensure that we are getting the best money for our taxpayers, but
we don’t dictate where those businesses are getting their supplies and their
services.
Rebecca Carter:
— Thanks, Maire. And just further to that, and a big part of the rationale for
that would be when you consider 650 million procurements over hundreds of
millions of dollars, the level of detail of what we might be actually awarding
a procurement for, to a supplier, could be incredibly detailed. Right, like it
could come down to, you know, individual parts related to the construction of
restroom facilities, for example. So it really would not be particularly
feasible for the role that we play at SaskBuilds and Procurement to look into
every single detail of where Saskatchewan-based companies are procuring all of
their components from.
Erika
Ritchie: —
So maybe just for some clarification, I know the minister took some exception
to the choice of my words and surprise, and I just wanted to sort of elaborate
a little bit on that. Because obviously I mean you take the example of, you
know, when you go to the grocery store and you’re looking for that
made-in-Canada label on something. And then a lot of people are finding they’re
spending a lot of time these days like looking at the back to see, you know . . .
It may have been fabricated in one location but, you know, it’s using
ingredients that maybe have come from a global source.
I mean that’s the origin of
the question. I’m not in any way suggesting that, you know, Saskatchewan
doesn’t have a robust economy that’s supplying. But what I’m trying to do is
delve down and understand that that 90 per cent that you’re listing, to see okay,
but you know, next level.
Like you mentioned also best
value. I’m familiar with your best-value approach, and you know, there’s been
questions in the past about well how much does that ensure diversity of supply,
and ensuring that, you know, Indigenous companies are able to participate in
the procurement process and providing services. The same thing with women-owned
businesses. I mentioned that in the Assembly earlier.
I am getting a little bit off
track with my question around, you know, how you define best value. But just
only to say that I recognize that . . . I want to understand better
how you track and understand where those goods and services that you’re
procuring from Saskatchewan vendors are, the full scope of that value chain and
where it’s coming from.
[20:00]
Rebecca
Carter: —
Thank you very much for the question. We just thought we would clarify that an
approach that we do have is working very closely with industry to have an
understanding of what their procurement and third-party approaches look like.
We do want to minimize that though, being an onerous requirement to our
suppliers, right. They’re very busy. They have a lot on their plates, so we
want to minimize highly onerous reporting processes.
But we do have a very close
working relationship with our suppliers and with industry, and through that
relationship we have been able to learn in recent months about, you know, some
of the nuances associated with where some third-party or subtrades may come
from. So I’ll just turn it over to Sara for a bit of a description of that.
Thank you.
Sara
Nichols: —
Hello. My name is Sara Nichols. I am the assistant deputy minister of
infrastructure design and delivery. And so for one type of contract that we
would procure and that we manage at SaskBuilds and Procurement on major
capital, we work very closely with our industry partners, major Saskatchewan
general contractors. We understand that in our major projects — a school or a
hospital or a major health facility — approximately 80 to 85 per cent of the
value is done through subtrades.
But we know that a lot of
those subtrade companies — our mechanical contractors, our electrical
contractors — are also Saskatchewan businesses. And so this is a new
development. We don’t have all the data going back, but we do work very closely
with general contractors to understand the project, who is on their projects.
We’ve been working to increase competition and make sure that we’re getting
value across all of our major infrastructure projects, working very closely
with industry on monitoring trends in the sector.
Erika Ritchie: — And so
is it a matter . . . I mean you do have your best-value approach to
procurement. Is it the intention to modify that policy to look for either true
Saskatchewan and Canadian content moving forward in the current context?
Hon.
David Marit: —
I’ll just start. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and sorry for the delay. I think the
answer here is a lengthy one just as far as the procurement process and things
like that. I’m not sure how this is tying into the budget, but we’ll answer
this question or try and answer it. Thank you.
Rebecca Carter:
— Thank you. I can begin. So just as we contemplate what any change might look
like, as I indicated previously, really working closely with suppliers — the
majority of which are from Saskatchewan or Canadian — we’ve been having very
collaborative discussions in recent months as the environment has shifted
considerably to understand what the feasibility of that would look like, what
the logistics would look like, and what the impact would be to the supplier
community. So Sara’s going to be providing some details about what we’ve heard
and just some considerations that would inform that.
I
will reiterate of course our approach within SaskBuilds and Procurement is of
course prioritizing Saskatchewan-based suppliers wherever possible. But one
thing that Sara’s just going to touch a little bit upon that I just wanted to
frame up a little bit is around, while certainly we do of course, you know, put
great value in prioritizing Saskatchewan suppliers and Canadian suppliers, we
also have to think very much about the feasibility of being able to provide
everything directly from the Saskatchewan supply chain.
In
some cases, you know, it’s actually not practical or feasible for very good
reasons. It wouldn’t necessarily add the most value to taxpayers for the
funding of various projects that we are procuring and building. It could lead
to massive cost escalations. So there has to of course be considerations if
that’s, you know, appropriate given the circumstances.
I’d also say that there’s
instances, for example, with some of the aircraft that we have for the
provincial air ambulance, that almost exclusively a lot of that is available
through US companies. That’s just one example. So it becomes very difficult to
say, well we simply would not procure from a US-based company for something
that is so crucial in terms of the scope of services that we provide throughout
the province.
And another really critical
area of that is information technology historically, and I worked very closely
with my counterparts across the country. And in the bilateral conversations
that we’ve been having, I’ve really learned that the majority of jurisdictions . . .
That is a very challenging area because the US has been a major supplier of
information technology. And there are cybersecurity risks with going outside of
the US for a product that may or may not exist in Canada at all.
So I just wanted to frame
that up, and Sara being in the infrastructure design and delivery branch can
speak to a little bit more detail about how we’ve engaged with the supplier
community and industry to be able to better understand some of the nuances to
inform these types of decisions.
Sara Nichols:
— Thank you. Sara Nichols with infrastructure design and delivery.
So I wanted to talk about a
couple examples, when we talk about where we’re able to as government get the
best value in making a change, or looking at different alternatives in a
project. So it’s really important in that project perspective to understand
what phase of design or construction the project is at.
So we also want to make sure
that we’re delivering on our client expectations. I don’t think anyone in the
House would want to delay on a school opening by another six months or a year
so we can go back and redesign the structure. When we go out to tender on a new
school, we’ve usually completed 100 per cent of that design — over often a year
with school divisions — and we’re getting ready to put that out to tender
because we want that shovel in the ground and we want that school open as
quickly as possible to meet the enrolment needs of the school division.
And so I think it’s also at
what point in a project can we have the biggest impact in terms of intervening
on choices around supply and specifics in a project. And so we are looking at
supply chains. And the earlier in the project that we can do that, it’s easier
in terms of the overall impact.
[20:15]
Or you imagine a project
that’s mid-construction. If we’re looking at something like steel — we have
projects halfway built; we’re not going to stop, take the steel out, and
substitute it with another project. That would be hugely expensive and create
significant delays on redesign and other complicating factors as that structure
will impact mechanical design, will impact electrical design, and it would be
astronomically expensive for us to roll that back.
I wanted to kind of share a
few of the feedback we’ve received from some of the industries we’ve talked
about. You know, where can we make the biggest impact and what are their
concerns? And so I know our industry, the Saskatchewan Construction Association
has indicated things like, you know, having the capability and the capacity to
be able to go back and check with each of their subtrades on where individual
line items coming in a project . . . I know on an individual project
there will be literally hundreds of contracts managed by a general contractor.
And so we are looking for the opportunity to switch products, but also to
understand what those overall cost implications are on the project, as well as
the timeline for delivery.
And so we’ve been looking to
find ideas from our industry partners, and I think the biggest opportunity for
us is projects that are not yet into construction, projects that are still in
the earlier design phases where we can set out the specifications and look for
making sure that we’re being open to alternatives that are easier to source
more in Canada.
We do know that certain items
. . . Like if you can imagine in a health facility, infection control
is a major requirement, and so certain things in mechanical systems in a health
facility are probably not that easy for us to change the supply chain on. But
we might be able to change supply chains on other items that are common in our
facilities. And so that’s what really, the conversations we’re having with
industry.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Thank you very much. I really appreciate that information in terms of sort of
forward-looking work that you’re doing so that I can understand what really is
meant when you tell me that 90 per cent of procurement is, you know, the value
is Saskatchewan.
But underneath that,
obviously the picture looks a little bit different when you break it down in
terms of those third parties. And so again, just going back to the best-value
approach that you take, are you requiring as part of the tendering documents that
vendors tell you, you know, how much of the supply is coming from Saskatchewan
and/or Canadian suppliers when you’re making those determinations about
awarding?
Hon.
David Marit: —
Mr. Chair, I’m trying to find the relevance of what that has to do with budget
estimates for ’25‑26. If I could ask for the relevance in this question.
Chair
Steele: — Yes, could we . . .
Erika
Ritchie: —
Well, happy to. I’m happy to answer that question.
Chair
Steele: — Okay, how does it relate
back to the estimates we’re trying to . . .
Erika
Ritchie: —
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess I said, I mean, the minister in his opening
remarks made reference to how the . . . It’s very germane to the work
that the procurement division undertakes. And I can see that central management
and services is spending over 11 million in central management and
services. The work that’s being done, I understand, within is overseeing
procurement for a large bulk of the government’s procurement. And so it’s in
relation to that subvote.
Chair
Steele: — I think I would like you
to move on to . . . There’s a lot of material to relate or call the
questions to, so if we could move on to . . . Yeah, I think it’s
needed to move on.
Erika
Ritchie: —
I’m quite certain this question relates to the budget estimate. I’m asking
about the tendering process. This is my opportunity that I get once a year to
ask these kinds of questions at a time when we’re looking at an economic trade
war with the United States of America. You know, people want to know. They’re
looking at what they’re buying in the grocery store, and you know, it’s part of
the same continuum. It’s a very straightforward question, I assure you, Mr.
Chair.
Chair
Steele: — Okay. Move on.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Oh, so do you want me to move on, or do you want the minister to move on with
the question?
Chair
Steele: — Yes, continue on. Let’s
see where we go from there. We’ll see. We’ve got a lot of material to go over.
I’d like to proceed and move into something.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Okay. So my question for the minister is, as part of the tendering process, are
you asking for vendors to list for you the Saskatchewan and Canadian content in
their tender offers?
Jill
Zimmer: —
I’m Jill Zimmer. I’m the assistant deputy minister of corporate strategy and
services. I just want to raise a quick point that you raised about the (SP01)
subvote, and you noted that it had increased by $11 million. I just wanted
to quickly point out that that is a net-neutral accounting thing that we did.
So the central management and services used to be part of the recoveries of
several different subvotes, so it was in (SP02), (SP05), and (SP11). So parts
of those subvotes, which we used to recover from other ministries, have now
been taken out, and those are now fully appropriated.
So that really is just a
restatement. We were recovering the money before. It’s net neutral to
government, so that’s not actually an increase. It shows as an increase, but
it’s actually a net-neutral thing. It’s just how we’re getting the money has
changed from recovery to appropriation. So the procurement management service
is in subvote (SP14), and that’s remained, you know, relatively stable year
over year. So I just wanted to point that out.
Erika
Ritchie: —
So that was the first part. Is there an answer to my question, Mr. Minister?
Well this will be the third time I’ve asked it. My question was about whether
you’ll be . . . Do you need me to repeat it? Oh, you do need me to
repeat it. Okay, I’m happy to repeat it a third time.
So
for the third time, Mr. Minister, would you please tell me if your tendering
process is, on the going forward, asking for a breakdown of Saskatchewan
content or Canadian content in its tender.
[20:30]
Hon. David
Marit: —
You know, I think it kind of goes back to what my deputy minister said in an
earlier answer about the whole process of working with the industry, and we
continue to do that. Obviously they’re concerned, and as Sara talked about some
of the challenges around what the industry is having around that and how the
RFP [request for proposal] process works. But obviously we’re working with the
industry, continue to work with the industry on how we proceed down that
pathway and to get that. Because in some aspects too some of these companies
have long-term contracts with providers as well that supply the product to them
as well.
So we’re still working with
industry on this to see how we get there. We’re worried obviously about time
delays, obviously is a big issue, and also increasing costs as well to the
taxpayers and ensuring that we’re providing top quality and best value for the
taxpayers.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Yeah, I appreciate, you know, the factors that you mention. And of course it’s
hard to turn on a dime. I guess what we’re just really trying to do is get some
clarity though, you know, around the numbers that have been presented here in
these estimates. They also took the form of a news release I think about a week
or two ago — I can’t remember exactly — which is why I was highly curious to
know the basis for the numbers and understand what underpins them. And you
know, again 689 million awarded, 650 contracts that have run through
SaskBuilds.
You mentioned, you know,
you’re starting to look into understanding some of the third-party supply, the
value chain, etc., as you mentioned. Can you tell me how much of that
Saskatchewan-based procurement is coming from third-party sources outside
Saskatchewan? Have you been able to get an estimate of that?
Chair
Steele: — I think the minister had
answered that question a number of times. I’d like to see us move on to some
more relevant questions towards the estimates, if you would please. And we’ll
take it from there and see what happens.
Erika
Ritchie: —
So as part of the ’24‑25 budget year, I understand last year Cam Swan was
under contract as a special advisor for stakeholder relations. How much was
paid last year to Mr. Swan? Is that a continuing contract? And how much will he
be receiving in ’25‑26?
Hon.
David Marit: —
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Obviously Cam Swan is an employee. He’s not on contract;
he’s an employee. So his salary will be released in Public Accounts volume 2.
It’s a one-year, and it’s expected to end December 31st of 2025. But he is an
employee.
Erika
Ritchie: —
So can you tell me the nature of the work that he’s undertaking, please?
Hon.
David Marit: —
Yes, I can. Yes. Yeah, he’s a special advisor to stakeholder relations. That’s
his role.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Yeah, I understand that to be his title. And I guess I’m just looking for a
little more detail on the nature of that role, please.
Hon.
David Marit: —
I’ll put my glasses on to read the fine print. Obviously he’s currently . . .
role is engaging with industry and stakeholders, obviously to understand the
needs moving forward.
And the areas of stakeholder
relations and provide support to suppliers are obviously issues in management;
addressing procurement-related concerns identified by vendors to support
continuous improvement; supply chain engagement; increasing the interest and
competitiveness of the Saskatchewan business competing for Government of
Saskatchewan opportunities by sharing information about Government of
Saskatchewan procurement processes; market sounding and early vendor
engagement; vendor education and pathfinding; providing support and training to
Saskatchewan business in understanding how to successfully compete for public
sector opportunities; and awareness — understanding industry trends and
challenges in relation to Government of Saskatchewan procurements to advise on
continuous improvement in procurement, ensuring opportunities for Saskatchewan
suppliers. That’s his role in working with stakeholder relations.
Erika
Ritchie: —
It’s a special advisor. I’m just wondering, like is that a position that is
ongoing and typical? It seems sort of atypical to me. What brought about the
need for the role?
Hon.
David Marit: —
I think it kind of says it in itself, reaching out to stakeholders. I think Mr.
Swan brings a wealth of knowledge to the table and reaching out with
stakeholders and having that ability to reach out and weather the challenges
and concerns around the procurement side from the industry stakeholders. And
that’s his role. That’s why we said it’s a one-year employment opportunity, and
that’s the role of Mr. Swan.
Erika
Ritchie: —
There’s a summary of capital investments of 25 million allocated to the
SaskBuilds Corporation. Could you please tell me what the major expense
components are?
Jill Zimmer:
— Jill Zimmer again. So the role of the SaskBuilds Corporation is to allow the
provision of funding for the purposes of infrastructure projects. And the
benefit of the corporation is it allows money to be held year over year. So if
there’s something that’s going to be done over multiple years, for example,
when we receive federal funding for multi-year projects, we can hold it in the
corporation.
So that $25 million is
for rail infrastructure investments necessary to link the Canadian Pacific
Railway and the Canadian National railway main lines to the Global
Transportation Hub to support the Cargill canola crush facility. A majority of
the work was completed in 2024. And that’s the purpose of the funding.
Erika
Ritchie: —
All right. So are there any other examples where you would be holding over
money from previous years? I know in Highways they talk about, you know, some
projects sort of going, spilling over into future years.
Jill Zimmer:
— Yeah. So like I mentioned on the federal funding, so the Investing in Canada
Infrastructure Program for example, it allows us to hold the funds until the
people who did the projects, like a municipality or an RM [rural municipality],
whoever, are able to build for them. So then we don’t have to have it
appropriated every year.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Right. But you’re not saying the full 25 . . . So the 25 million,
that summary, that allocation, it’s for the CNCP [Canadian National and
Canadian Pacific] work as an ICIP [Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program] . . .
Jill Zimmer:
— Not for ICIP. It’s just the CNCP work.
Erika
Ritchie: —
CNCP. Okay. Mr. Minister, could you please list all sole-source contracts over
$1 million that occurred in ’24‑25, including the name of the
company or individual that was awarded the contract?
[20:45]
Hon. David
Marit: —
Just for clarification, you said contracts over 1 million?
Erika Ritchie: — Yes,
please.
Hon.
David Marit: —
Thanks, Mr. Chair. We had to do a little digging. There’s none.
Erika
Ritchie: —
In ’25‑26 did you place a confidentiality clause in a sole-source
contract where there was no market for the work? And if you did, can you please
tell us why?
Hon.
David Marit: —
Mr. Chair, I’d just like clarification how this relates to the estimates.
Chair
Steele: —
Okay. Could you . . .
Erika
Ritchie: —
I think it relates in the usual manner,
Mr. Chair.
Chair
Steele: — Can we get clarity on the
usual manner?
Erika
Ritchie: —
Yeah, sure. Well I mean I thought the purpose of being in estimates was to ask
questions about, you know, the contracts and the work of the ministry.
Oftentimes our questions will sort of, you know, move into actual work that’s
been undertaken, the nature of that work, maybe some of the policies that sort
of inform the work.
You know, oftentimes our
questions here can be, you know, wide ranging in scope. As I say you know, this
is an opportunity for us to speak and ask these questions directly of the
minister and his staff. We really appreciate that opportunity.
Chair
Steele: — Okay. For example here, a
number of questions discussed and discussions of the estimates at committee
meeting is a normal very wide ranging, but during consideration of the subvotes
and questions . . . We’re doing some adjustments here. Okay. You’ve
been given latitude. Please connect your questions to the estimates.
Erika Ritchie: — Thank
you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Minister, has SaskBuilds and Procurement issued any
contracts in ’24‑25 that have specific requirements for northern or
Indigenous ownership or women ownership?
Hon.
David Marit: —
I’ll start just a bit if I could, Mr. Chair, to talk about obviously First
Nation, the Indigenous component on some of this. And I’ll speak obviously with
my other ministry hat on, with Highways contracts in northern communities.
Obviously we have some excellent partners up there with First Nations that we
contract with and in many cases sole-source that way.
And one I can speak of is at
Pinehouse with a group there too as well that do road maintenance, and they
have the expertise at the local side for that aspect of it. We do have some
very good working relationships and agreements with our northern communities
from a highway perspective.
And I’m going to turn it over
to Sara just to, obviously talk about some, really some great first-time
stories in partnership and working with the Indigenous communities. So Sara,
I’ll turn it to you.
Sara Nichols:
— Thank you so much. Sara Nichols, ADM [assistant deputy minister] of
infrastructure design and delivery. I just wanted to do a few examples. And so
one would be on our major projects. When we have a general contractor on board,
we are working to facilitate engagement with local communities where we’re
doing major projects.
So one example is, Prince
Albert Grand Council is a partner on our project for the Prince Albert Victoria
Hospital project. And so while our commercial relationship is directly with PCL
Construction, we’ve worked to make sure that we’re supporting engagement
between PCL, who’s hiring many subtrades and local contractors and employees,
with the local community, including our partners like Prince Albert Grand
Council.
And then another example is
government has been working to advance the Saskatoon urgent care centre, and
we’ve been doing that through a unique first-of-its-kind partnership with the
Ahtahkakoop Cree Development with Ahtahkakoop First Nation.
And so that’s a project that
has a number of elements where we’ve been working really closely with the
Nation, working with the city of Saskatoon and the Nation to work on the land
becoming an urban reserve and how to facilitate that partnership to open the
Saskatoon urgent care centre in partnership.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Thank you very much for that response. So is Indigenous or supplier diversity
part of your best-value tendering process?
[21:00]
Hon.
David Marit: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I said earlier and I just want to reiterate, I know
through Ministry of Highways there’s some very good partnerships with
Indigenous groups up in northern Saskatchewan, and I can think of a few that,
you know, we’ve met with. And what I really do want to comment about is they
really do know the road structure and they know the maintenance side of it, and
obviously they’re looking after from their community side as well. But I’m
going to turn it over to Maire on the whole engagement side.
Maire Coulthard:
— Hi. Maire Coulthard, chief procurement officer with procurement management
division. So through our Priority Saskatchewan area, we do engage with our
Indigenous business community. Our goal is to ensure all our Saskatchewan
businesses, including our Indigenous businesses, are ready and prepared to do
business with government. We attended the Indigenous Business Gathering just a
few weeks ago to work with those Indigenous organizations to build their
capacity.
And we do on a case-by-case
basis include requirements in procurement for Indigenous specifications. So if
there is a project that specifically requires Indigenous knowledge — for
example, local experience or, you know, an opportunity where there’s programs
or partnerships or initiatives that are required based on the knowledge of an
Indigenous organization — we would build those specifications into that
procurement specifically, and then award points based on that response. So it’s
not a blanket activity that happens, but it is done on a case-by-case basis.
Erika Ritchie: — Thank
you. Thank you for that response. It’s my understanding that when SaskPower,
for instance, undertakes its procurement, it does have a consideration of
Indigenous inclusion in the tenders. I’m just wondering — you mentioned sort of
like on a case-by-case basis — is there a reason why that wouldn’t be part of
your tendering process on a regular basis?
Maire Coulthard:
— Hi. Maire Coulthard, procurement management division. So I would start by
saying that we do engage regularly with all of our Crown counterparts. We have
a number of committees that we sit on together to learn from each other to
discuss policies and practices. We collaborate on procurements and leverage
each other’s procurements in order to get best value for government as a whole.
So we also work hard to
understand the capacity of Indigenous businesses. As I mentioned, our Priority
Saskatchewan area meets with them regularly. We do have a senior Indigenous
advisor who goes out and meets with our Indigenous business community to understand
any barriers that there are to procurement with government for these Indigenous
businesses. And we’re regularly working to build capacity.
So we often get questions or
inquiries, requests to come and provide training or education to . . .
I think most recently Métis Nation-Saskatchewan has asked us to come out and to
provide training to their member organizations so that they can understand the
bidding process, so that they have better opportunities to compete on our
procurements and to do business with Saskatchewan.
I do have a number of
examples also of competitions where we have included Indigenous criteria in our
competitions where it made sense. So the current Sask Polytech building that
Sara mentioned earlier, that included Indigenous criteria. They’re trying to
build an inclusive space for all. So we’re looking for proponents who can
describe, you know, their programs, partnerships, or initiatives that their
company has implemented to recruit, retain, and advance Indigenous people,
women, visible minorities, and persons with disabilities in their workforce.
That same wording was
included in guard services for northern Saskatchewan area and guard services
for the Legislative Building that we’re in. And we also had a competition
recently for Corrections that included, you know, that same wording about
partnerships or initiatives that their company has implemented to recruit,
retain, or advance Indigenous people, women, visible minorities, and persons
with disabilities in their workforce.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Thank you for that response. One of my caucus colleagues was in committee for
the Status of Women, I believe last week, and was asking some questions that,
you know, were sort of deferred to SaskBuilds for an answer. So I understand
that their funding had been cut back because there was now . . .
SaskBuilds and Procurement was distributing products for the provincial
menstrual program, and I’m wondering if you could tell me how much that
contract was procured for, what items were procured, and the quantities,
please.
[21:15]
Patrick Coulthard:
— Thank you for the question. So Patrick Coulthard, assistant deputy minister
with operations and service delivery. So I just want to clarify, we’re a
contributor to the product and to the program in the form, in the way that we
logistically distribute the materials out to the school divisions. And so we
accept the product on behalf of the working committee, and then we distribute
those products out to the school boards and school divisions as they request
them. And our role as SaskBuilds in that piece from the operations side is just
the distribution and logistics behind it.
Erika Ritchie: — Thank
you. And so to the rest of my question, I was asking about the cost, the
products, and the quantities please.
Patrick Coulthard:
— So Patrick Coulthard again here with operations and service delivery. So just
a couple pieces I would want to expand a little bit on. So a couple things, I
guess. We’ve been distributing this product since ’23‑24, and so over the
last two years we’ve distributed 7.25 million pieces of product throughout
the province in collaboration with the Status of Women, Parks, Culture and
Sport.
We continue to support that,
and we’re continuing to move those pieces and those shipments along through our
internal mechanisms and through some external added support pieces. Part of
that is, you know, our continued support in ’25‑26, anticipating to
continue to move that forward also with another 4.5 million products.
We don’t have a cost
associated with the product, as we don’t hold that contract. We are just a
distributor of the materials.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Oh, I was given the impression that any questions about the contract should be
directed to SaskBuilds. I’m a little confused. Maybe you could explain that a
little bit more for me just in terms of what that working relationship is like
that you would not have that full information.
Patrick Coulthard:
— Okay. Thank you. Patrick here with operations and service delivery again. So
just wanted to provide some further context. So SaskBuilds and Procurement
collaborates with Parks, Culture and Sport and Status of Women to deliver the
access to menstrual products initiative, which was implemented in 2023. And you
know, the Government of Saskatchewan’s taken on a partnership with Shoppers
Drug Mart and Procter & Gamble to distribute those . . . get the
menstrual products to schools and a variety of organizations over a three-year
period.
Erika
Ritchie: —
Thank you. I’m going to cede the floor to my colleague for a few questions.
Matt Love: — Yeah,
thanks so much. Minister, I’ve got a couple questions related to school builds
and procurement and education. First up was just looking to see if you could
table some information. So a simple commitment from the minister will do with
these questions.
First
of all, you know, a couple years ago I was in this committee and was asking
about where we’re at with the education facility condition index. I understand
there was a four-year process that was undertaken and a commitment at that
time, on April 24th of 2023, that the process would be complete that year. I
have not yet seen a report. Perhaps it is available publicly, if you could make
me aware of where to find that. And if it is not available publicly — I imagine
that that auditable school facilities is complete — can you table the documents
for the committee today?
Jill Zimmer:
— Jill Zimmer, ADM corporate services and strategy. So the role that SaskBuilds
and Procurement plays in the asset management process is we administer the
facility condition index and the facility condition assessment programs. So
yes, we do this by performing quality control on assessment reports and
generating and distributing infrastructure data to the people who own the
assets.
The purpose of the program is
to provide clients and government with a consistent and standardized approach
to the collection and reporting of infrastructure data. These assessments are
combined into technical reports that include FCI [facility condition index]
values, deferred maintenance costs, and condition assessments per facility. And
these reports are sent to each ministry client for decision making on their
particular infrastructure.
So to your question, we have
completed the infrastructure assessment for the education sector, and I would
defer back to the Ministry of Education for that data.
Matt
Love: —
Okay. Minister Hindley will be getting a letter from my office shortly, I
suppose. I’ve got a question here for the minister. You know, there’s many
school capital projects that have taken significant amount of time to get
moving, examples being, here in Regina, Harbour Landing joint-use school;
Saskatoon city centre project; and the massive Holmwood joint-use high school.
And we’re aware of
correspondence from the mayors of Saskatoon and Regina raising concerns about
this process and the cost of land for school builds that your government has
required cities to pay. And in the letter from the mayors they have expressed
that education is a provincial responsibility, including the cost of building
schools and the land to do so. So my question to the minister: what are you
doing to work with these municipal leaders to get their projects moving without
driving up the cost of housing or delaying the projects further?
[21:30]
Hon.
David Marit: —
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks for the question. Appreciate it because I
think we’ve got some good news to report to you. Obviously Harbour Landing and
Saskatoon city centre are going to tender now — I think they’re out — they are
out for tender, so hopefully construction will start this fall on those two
schools or this spring hopefully. And the joint-use high school is in the
design stage right now.
But you asked the question
about what the city mayors said, and I’m glad you brought that up. I really am.
We had a very good meeting with the city mayors a little over a week ago, where
we’d had this very good discussion about obviously land and the size and scope
of schools and everything else like that, and the challenges around that. And
the builders were in the room as well. The developers were in the room as well.
So we had a really good discussion.
So where it has landed is
that now we have structured a committee between SaskBuilds, the cities. They’ll
appoint, from the administration side they’ll appoint the folks they want on it
and the builders as well. And they’re going to come back with some recommendations.
I can tell you that I was
adamant at that meeting that those recommendations will come back in no more
than three months. We gave them a time frame. As you know sometimes when you
start these committees, they can drag on, but we asked them within three months
to come back with a recommendation.
Oh, and Government Relations
and Education were at the table as well. So they’re all there.
So that’s kind of where it’s
at. And I just wanted to bring you up to speed. But a good question because
yes, we’d heard the same concerns and challenges around that. Obviously when
you look at the scope of the schools and the land acquisition, it’s probably
one of the biggest issues and challenges we all have. So we all have to work
together.
The city mayors were there
and even the developers, and the ministry level were very positive about
structuring the committee and having some recommendations coming back to us
within three months. Okay?
Chair
Steele: — Having reached our
agreed-upon time for considerations of SaskBuilds estimates, we’ll adjourn the
consideration of these estimates. Minister, do you have any closing comments?
Hon.
David Marit: —
Well thanks, Mr. Chair. I thank the members opposite for the questions and the
line of questioning, and thank the committee members as well. I do want to take
this opportunity to obviously thank Hansard and all the folks involved in
keeping this meeting on track and online.
But I really want to take the
opportunity to thank the team that is sitting alongside me and behind me that
are here with us. As you can see there’s lots of entities within SaskBuilds
when you look at the procurement side and the IT strategies as well. And the
work that they do is absolutely amazing when you look at all the procurement
and infrastructure that we’re doing here in the province of Saskatchewan.
So my hat’s off to the team,
and I say that with the greatest respect. It’s a pleasure to work alongside
these folks to deliver major procurement and capital projects here in the
province of Saskatchewan. So thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair
Steele: — Thank you. MLA Ritchie,
do you have any closing comments?
Erika
Ritchie: —
Yes, thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the minister and his
officials for being available here today to answer our questions. As well I
want to thank the Clerk at the table and Hansard as well for being here late in
the evening. I know we’re almost wrapped up estimates for the year, and as
always I appreciate the time that we’re given here today to represent the
people of Saskatchewan and ask the questions on their minds. Thanks so much.
Chair
Steele: — That concludes our
business for today. I would like to ask a member to move a motion of
adjournment. Minister Carr has moved. All agreed?
Some
Hon. Members: — Agreed.
Chair
Steele: — Carried. The committee
stands adjourned until Wednesday, April 16th, 2025 at 4 p.m. Thank you.
[The committee adjourned at
21:34.]
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