Speaker Goudy: — I would like to table the annual report from the Advocate for Children and Youth in accordance with section 39 of The Advocate for Children and Youth Act. The advocate has submitted the annual report for the year 2024.

I recognize the Government House Leader.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to request leave to move a motion regarding the appointment of the Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Assembly.

MOTIONS

Appointment of Information and Privacy Commissioner

Hon. Tim McLeod: — I would move:

That pursuant to subsection 38(3) of The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act) Grace Hession David be appointed to the position of Information and Privacy Commissioner effective May 1st, 2025.

I so move.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the Minister of Justice:

That pursuant to subsection 38(3) of The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, Grace Hession David be appointed to the position of Information and Privacy Commissioner effective May 1st, 2025.

Is the Assembly ready for the question?

Some Hon. Members: — Question.

Speaker Goudy: — Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS

Speaker Goudy: — I will go first. I am excited to have Grace Hession David here with us today. And I am fairly new to the role, so being able to represent the province in some of our duties of hiring the special officers in this province, I learned a good and valuable lesson, that this province is full of skilled people with capacity and passion.

And I remember sitting through the time of the different interviews. And when Grace went through and was questioned I remember thinking, “You know, if my mom was facing a difficult information breach, who would I want standing up for her?” And I can’t imagine someone better to represent our province and to serve our people in the area of information and privacy.

So, Grace, all the best to you in your new role and may you have success as you serve the good people of the province of Saskatchewan. So I would ask all members to welcome and congratulate Grace Hession David in her new role, and welcome her to her Legislative Assembly.

I recognize the Minister of CIC [Crown Investments Corporation of Saskatchewan].

Hon. Jeremy Harrison: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask the Assembly for leave to make an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Hon. Jeremy Harrison: — Well thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. It’s not often that I have the opportunity to introduce constituents here from Meadow Lake. But we have a great group here today from the Meadow Lake Tribal Council, the leadership of the Meadow Lake Tribal Council in your gallery, Mr. Speaker, folks who I’ve had the chance to know and work with now for decades. I will name them individually and then maybe talk a little bit about what we’re up to.

But I want to introduce firstly, Tribal Chief Jeremy Norman — great hockey player, a good friend of mine. We grew up together in the Northwest and I want to welcome Chief Norman to his Assembly.

Vice-Chief Richard Derocher up as well. Vice-Chief has been a very, very strong and long-time advocate for his community of Flying Dust First Nation and in his role as vice-chief of the Meadow Lake Tribal Council.

Vice-Chief Norma Catarat joining us as well, newly elected vice-chief. And welcome, Vice-Chief, to the Assembly.

Tina Rasmussen, the chief business officer from Meadow Lake Tribal Council. And Tina actually not just representing Meadow Lake Tribal Council, but represented the province at COP28 [Conference of the Parties 28] in Dubai, talking about the great work that MLTC [Meadow Lake Tribal Council] is doing in the forestry sector.

I want to introduce Robert Follett, a long-time Meadow Lake resident, originally of Newfoundland and Labrador, but he still has the accent a little bit. I want to welcome Robert, the general manager of Mistik Management, and of course Al Balisky, the chief executive officer of MLTC, who I think many know very well here in the Chamber. We had some very, very good discussions this morning about a number of the ongoing long-term partnerships between the Meadow Lake Tribal Council and the Government of Saskatchewan — very, very good and productive discussions.

And we’re really looking forward to an announcement tomorrow — which I’m holding myself back about talking about — because it’s going to be an incredibly significant announcement for the province, and really a very significant announcement for the future of the Meadow Lake Tribal Council, for which they deserve an incredible amount of credit, the work that’s gone into that. So we will save that for tomorrow, but I want to welcome the leadership from MLTC to their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Athabasca.

Leroy Laliberte: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Requesting leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Leroy Laliberte: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to join the member opposite in welcoming some friends of mine from the Meadow Lake Tribal Council. Chief Jeremy Norman, I know, like the member said, was an avid hockey player. Not very good, Mr. Speaker, but he’s a hockey player. I would like to say welcome to Jeremy.

Welcome to Vice-Chief Richard Derocher, also known as Chook; and Norma Catarat who is also from the Buffalo River Dene Nation. She sat as chief there and she’s now vice-chief of the Meadow Lake Tribal Council. Al Balisky, Tina and Robert, it was nice to have them join the leader and myself this morning and talk about some northern issues, Mr. Speaker. You know, they represent nine Nations of the tribal council which has 18,000 members of which they represent, Mr. Speaker.

So it’s very great, very awesome to have them here at the Assembly, Mr. Speaker. I’ll ask all members to make welcome to this representation to their Legislative Assembly, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Martensville-Blairmore.

Hon. Jamie Martens: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the role that I have as the Legislative Secretary to Trade and Export on the Ukrainian-Saskatchewan file, I am very blessed to be involved with the UCC [Ukrainian Canadian Congress] and also SURAC [Saskatchewan-Ukraine relations advisory committee] here in the province.

And I just wanted to extend a welcome to our president of Ukrainian Canadian Congress of Saskatchewan, and that is Elena Krueger. And she’s sitting right up here in your gallery today. As well as of course in this gallery here we have Mykhailo, which is a wonderful gentleman that is on our security team. And I think that everyone has probably got a chance to meet him, and he’s a great young man to speak to.

And I’m very, very pleased to have the Ukrainian community here in their legislature today and as well from anywhere, from displaced Ukrainians to people that have been here for many years. So thank you so much for coming today. And everyone welcome the Ukrainian community here today. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Churchill-Wildwood.

Keith Jorgenson: — Mr. Speaker, I request leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Keith Jorgenson: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You can tell by the number of vyshyvankas that you see in the building as well as the smell of delicious Ukrainian food that today is a special day in our legislature. So I have a list of very special guests here that I would like to introduce.

First of all, Elena Krueger, sitting in your gallery. We have a great number of people. I apologize if I miss anyone. If you just want to kind of wave out as we recognize the group that you’ve come to represent here. We have a number of people from the UCC Saskatchewan Provincial Council, if you just want to wave and let us know who you are. We also have a number of people from the UCC Regina office, if you also want to wave if you’re from the UCC Regina.

I also want to recognize, and I apologize in advance if I get some names wrong — I might have Ukrainian DNA but I do not have Ukrainian language — Orest Warnyca up in your gallery. He is the honorary ambassador to, I think, Mosaic. Also I would like to introduce my Oleh Bufan. He’s my part-time CA [constituency assistant], works in my office.

There’s a great number of people here from the Ukrainian community. If I didn’t mention you specifically by name, I sincerely welcome you to your legislature. And I guess my message on behalf of all of us is that we see you, we hear you, and we value you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Parks, Culture and Sport.

Hon. Alana Ross: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to take the opportunity to join the member from Martensville-Blairmore and the member opposite to welcome our guests from the Ukrainian council and other Ukrainian guests who are here joining us today. We all know what a richness the Ukrainian culture brings to our province, and it is such a pleasure to see you all here today. Please join me in welcoming them to our Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Walsh Acres.

Jared Clarke: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Jared Clarke: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To you and through you it’s an honour to welcome a number of youth sitting in the west gallery today. These are individuals from youth for climate action. They are led by Kiké Dueck — give us a wave — Oscar Dueck, Elizah-Jayne Temple, Harmony Conroy, Indyra McLeod, Eleanor French, Isla Bedel, Viva N, Toni Koutsoulis, and joined by chaperones Laura French, Kris Dueck, and Amy Snider.

Mr. Speaker, Kiké and their friends have been working hard on getting climate petitions signed that I have the honour of submitting today during petitions. They have collected 567 signatures on these climate petitions and are very proud to be here today to call on the government to take action on climate change. They are looking for provincial leaders to act on this front.

Just a great group of young people, Mr. Speaker, from Regina here. Most of them go to Connaught School, a few of them to Campbell Collegiate. Just incredibly inspiring young people. Our future in Saskatchewan is bright thanks to young people like them and many of the other young people that are here in the gallery.

With that I’d like to ask all members join me in welcoming these inspiring youth to their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of the Environment.

Hon. Travis Keisig: — Well thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to join the member opposite and thank these young people for coming to their Legislative Assembly. It’s important that all people stay engaged in the democratic process.

[13:45]

And on a side note, one of my favourite things to do in this place is to poll petitions that the members opposite bring forward to the Legislative Assembly. So I read your petitions and look forward to engaging on any questions that you could have in the future, and welcome you and your chaperones to this, your Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Stonebridge.

Darcy Warrington: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Darcy Warrington: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to introduce staff and students from Brownell School, seated in the west gallery. While I can’t see you, I’ll get the member from Kindersley-Biggar to wave on my behalf. He’s the bald one on the other side.

Speaking of bald people, I’m introducing them today on behalf of the MLA [Member of the Legislative Assembly] from Saskatoon Chief Mistawasis. He couldn’t be here but he assures me that you all get ice cream delivered to your school on Friday, so definitely hold politicians to account when they make a promise like that.

I’d also like to acknowledge Deanna Fast, Meagen Dunn, Lauren McPhedrian, and Samina Mahmood who are teachers and educational assistants that have gone out of their way to create an excellent opportunity for these students today. They’re definitely working past their contractual hours today, and planning for events like these take a great deal of care and attention.

In particular, Deanna Fast is sort of a special person to me. We both worked at École College Park School in the mid‑2010s. She’s been job-sharing with various teachers throughout her career. She also worked with a great teacher named Lindsay Kelleher, who is a great, great friend of mine. And the work that she’s always done is admirable, amongst all of the educational staff that are here with us today.

One more shout-out, and again you’re going to have to wave at the other side. Is there an Andi Kruger up there? Could you give everybody a wave? Andi Kruger is the son of one of my good friends, Jodi Kruger, who is another teacher that I worked with at École College Park School for a long time.

So I look forward to meeting with them in the rotunda after question period. And I would ask that all members help me in welcoming them to their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Trade and Export.

Hon. Warren Kaeding: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d ask leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Hon. Warren Kaeding: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To you and through you, I’d like to officially introduce Mr. Ralph Ward, seated in your gallery, the pride of McLean, Saskatchewan, to his Legislative Assembly. Today is Ralph’s official last day of work.

The Legislative Building was very fortunate to add Ralph to its facility staff in November of 2010. He has served the building well on so many levels. Probably known best for the hundreds if not thousands of certificates and pictures that he has hung over the years in various offices, with the ever-increasing number of certificates to be held. And he says — and you know who you are — he would have to reassure the one member, “Yes, I used a level to hang those.”

From farming, painter, butcher, baker, carpenter, and even ambulance attendant, all his former job experiences helped him to be ready for his work here. He has also worked in the maintenance crew and carpentry shops at Fort San and Fort Qu’Appelle for many years, as well as the Paul Dojack Youth Centre.

Ralph is a great teacher and wants to share his knowledge. He makes sure that things are done the right way, unlike his beloved Montreal Canadiens. But Ralph keeps his partners in the maintenance office in line and is a very modest person. And it took me a lot of arm-twisting to get him here today.

He has three daughters — Chelsea, Kyley, and Rebecca — and three grandkids. In his retirement he’s going to pursue his long-term goal of throwing a clean game in 10‑pin bowling. I understand his teammates have achieved this and he’s close, oh-so close. But he’s now going to have more time to enjoy his personal hobbies, like hunting, fishing, treks to his cabin up north, and of course catching some more live games of his beloved franchise, the Blue Jays, or maybe even tinkering more on that Plymouth Duster that I know I hold dear to my heart.

So with that being said, I would like to congratulate Ralph on his well-earned retirement after 30 years in government, and hope to see him in the future. Maybe, maybe in a part-time capacity here keeping people honest, a couple more pictures to hang. And I wish him success in getting that clean bowling game. Thanks so much, Ralph, for the things that you’ve done for us here in this building. I’d like all members to thank Ralph.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Leader of the Opposition.

Carla Beck: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my honour to rise today and welcome all of the guests who have joined us here today, the members from the Ukrainian community. I’d like to say a special thank you to Tribal Chief Norman and Vice-Chief Derocher and Vice-Chief Catarat who’ve joined us here today, the students from Connaught for making their voices known here today, Mr. Speaker, all of the students and leaders who have joined us here.

And I will acknowledge I’m feeling quite sad to learn that Ralph is retiring today after 30 years of serving the members and the people in this building oh-so well. It’s okay if you’re not sad.

Mr. Speaker, you know, Ralph is someone who is not known I think for saying a lot of words, but he is steady. He has served us well for so many years. And sincerely we all wish you well in your pursuits after today — time with grandkids, 10‑pin bowling.

Mr. Speaker, I knew the first day that I was here I think. Many of us, it was Ralph and Jeff who we see when we walk through those doors. They help us set our offices up and keep us served in so many ways here. I knew I liked him the moment I saw him, but now that I hear he’s a Blue Jays and a Habs fan, Mr. Speaker, I’m even more sad to lose him from the building. But sincerely wish you all the best in your retirement, and thank you for your service to this Assembly and the people of Saskatchewan. I invite all members to join me.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Government Relations.

Hon. Eric Schmalz: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To you and through you, I’d like to recognize several individuals here this day in the Chamber. More staff from our Ministry of Government Relations have joined us here today, some officials from the ministry. I ask that you’d raise your hand when I read your name.

From the ministry, First Nations, Métis and northern affairs division, Hoa Nguyen, Ava Reyes, Steve McNeil, Pooja Kansra. I hope I’m pronouncing that correctly. From central services and standards division, Rikki Webb, Mackenzie Hay, Barb Rasmussen, Angeline Bernal. And from the First Nations, Métis, and northern affairs division and central services standards division, Liz Slator.

I would ask that all members thank them for their hard work and service to the people of Saskatchewan and welcome them to this, their Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Walsh Acres.

Jared Clarke: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to join with the minister in welcoming these officials to their Legislative Assembly. I really appreciate the work that goes into coordinating with municipalities across the province. There are a lot of municipalities in Saskatchewan, Mr. Speaker, from towns, villages, cities, and RMs [rural municipality]. And I just want to, on behalf of the official opposition, to say thank you for the work that you do each and every day to serve Saskatchewan people.

So I ask all members to join me in welcoming these fine Saskatchewan civil servants to their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Weyburn-Bengough.

Michael Weger: — Mr. Speaker, I’d like to request leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Michael Weger: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To you and through you, I’d like to take the opportunity to introduce a number of individuals that have made a very significant impact on the lives of individuals in our province and our country that are affected by cystic fibrosis.

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is the start of Cystic Fibrosis Awareness Month, so I thought it would be fitting to have these guests attend today. And I will hopefully have more to say about Cystic Fibrosis Month in a future member’s statement. Mr. Speaker, today, escorted by my wife, Cara, and my oldest daughter, Teresa, we are joined by amazing volunteers from the South Saskatchewan Chapter of Cystic Fibrosis Canada.

Starting on the left we have Rita Steiner. Rita joined the CF [cystic fibrosis] chapter in the fall of 1984 after her son Michael was diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. Rita has acted as chapter treasurer for years, president and past president for a few more years, and when she retired from SaskPower she became the CF Canada [Cystic Fibrosis Canada] regional director for Saskatchewan.

Rita has volunteered for many events, including the Walk to Make CF History, the Advocis golf tournament, and the Ride for the Breath of Life, and many other events throughout the years.

Next beside Rita we have Greg and Donna Wilchuck. They joined the chapter in 1981. Donna had a close friend, Karen Lackey, that had cystic fibrosis, whom Donna met in high school back in 1973. And unfortunately Karen passed away in 1987. Greg and Donna have been involved in all numerous events in the chapter, volunteering for the past 45 years.

Donna was the organizer of Dream of a Diamond Dream of a Cure Ladies Night for 11 years, and she was also on the committee for the Royal Children’s Ball for five years, which her daughter, Krystal Ulmer, acted as Chairperson for. Donna has acted as chapter secretary for over 25 years. Greg has been the Chairperson of the annual 65 Roses golf tournament for 10 years, and has also been very involved as a committee member for the annual Ride for the Breath of Life bike run that took place in May.

Behind them in the second row we have Ralph and Bridgette Leibel. They joined the cystic fibrosis chapter in 1993 when their two boys Christopher and Jordan were both diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. Ralph and Bridgette have volunteered throughout the years with various CF events, including the Walk to Make Cystic Fibrosis History and the Ride for the Breath of Life. Ralph has previously volunteered as chapter president and represented the chapter nationally as the regional director for Saskatchewan.

Bridgette and Ralph are both now retired after 40 years of public service. Ralph retired last year from the Ministry of Government Relations as the executive director for community planning. They continue their support to advance research and treatment needed to improve the lives of all those with cystic fibrosis in Saskatchewan.

Mr. Speaker, it has been said that we stand on the shoulders of those that came before us. My wife and I have acted as Co-Chairs of the south Saskatchewan chapter for 15 years or so. And when I think of these long-time volunteers, this saying rings very true.

I would ask all members of this House to join me in thanking these individuals for their many years of service to the cystic fibrosis community, and also welcome them to this, their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Elphinstone-Centre.

Meara Conway: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to join with the member opposite in welcoming these folks from the cystic fibrosis southeast chapter and all they do on behalf of the community in this province to raise awareness and funds and spur action around this very important issue.

I know that this is an issue that is very near and dear to the member opposite, the MLA for Weyburn, to his heart, and that he and his wife have been quite active on this issue. So I just want to join with the member opposite in welcoming you on behalf of the official opposition.

Mr. Speaker, while I’m on my feet I also just want to say thanks to Ralph on behalf of everyone — very understated, very helpful guy. I remember one day I came around the corner and he was climbing through a window. Someone had locked the door and he was trying to climb through. And I just thought, wow, like “other duties assigned” category just being stretched to the max, Mr. Speaker. So yeah, we’re just really all sad to see you go. And thanks for everything, Ralph.

Mr. Speaker, also I just want to give a quick shout-out to two kids that have joined this group — I don’t know, young adults rather — especially Kiké and Elizah. These are two young people I’ve got to know a little bit. Elizah, I had the pleasure of coaching her basketball and I’ve seen her kind of develop as a young woman. And she’s an incredible Ukrainian dancer with the Pre-Poltava group.

And Kiké, a lover of the great outdoors, of mushrooms, of all social justice action, just a really inspiring kid. I’ve never been approached at a five-year-old soccer game to sign a climate petition, but Kiké did a good job of selling me on that issue. I signed the petition. Really incredible to see this kind of action in our community.

And also a little shout-out to Kiké’s dad, who’s with them today — Kris, who had no small part, I’m sure, in shaping this young person. So I just wanted to join with the member opposite in also welcoming these young people who are here to advocate for a brighter future on behalf of Saskatchewan, Canada, and the entire planet.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Premier.

Hon. Scott Moe: — Mr. Speaker, I would request leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The Premier has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Hon. Scott Moe: — Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to my colleagues for granting leave. Just follow up on a number of introductions here today. First, those here advocating on behalf of those living with cystic fibrosis: thank you for coming.

To Cara and Teresa, thank you for your support as you have a member of your family that serves on the floor of this Assembly. And your support of him being here is appreciated very much by the Government of Saskatchewan.

[14:00]

Always to the students, our future leaders, Mr. Speaker: welcome to your Legislative Assembly.

To those leaders from our North, from Meadow Lake Tribal Council, Mr. Speaker: welcome, and thank you for the vibrant partnership that we have across many conversations. But in particular I would like to make mention of the forestry industry where Meadow Lake Tribal Council is a leader — not only in Canada, but I would say globally — in what they are doing in the forestry industry in employing people that are living in their communities, but going far beyond that in the ownership of the projects. And are really setting the standard and charting the path, Mr. Speaker, for economic reconciliation and opportunities, I think, for Indigenous people here in Saskatchewan, across Canada, and ultimately I think around the world, Mr. Speaker.

Ralph Ward, thank you, thank you, thank you for holding this place together. It is some tough days throughout Ralph’s year. Budget day would be a difficult one; Throne Speech day would be a difficult one; every four years when all of us come back after an election would be a difficult day. But Ralph truly, him and Jeff Tochor, truly hold this place together, Mr. Speaker, and I think are great friends to everyone that works in here. And I wish you many happy days in northeastern Saskatchewan scaring the moose out of the bush.

Mr. Speaker, I would just close briefly with a very warm welcome to all those from the Ukrainian community that are here. The partnership that the Government of Saskatchewan has had with the Ukrainian committee, Mr. Speaker, whether it be unofficially, officially. And I would say the impact that the Ukrainian community has had on our communities in this province for literally decades, over a century now, Mr. Speaker, is oh-so significant, oh-so significant.

Many of our communities across this province were, have been, and continue to be built by people of Ukrainian heritage, Mr. Speaker, and that partnership I think, between the government — whoever they might be — and the Ukrainian community goes long before the tragic last few years that we have seen with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Mr. Speaker.

I think back to some of the work that Ken Krawetz had done with respect to the Bitter Memories of Childhood monument that sits in the legislative grounds here, Mr. Speaker. We’ve announced just recently to fix some of the shifting clay, the Regina clay underneath that monument, Mr. Speaker. But I do want to welcome everyone that has joined us today.

I’d also just make a quick comment with respect to the mosaic of cultures in which our province is made up, whether it be Indigenous, Ukrainian. A significant percentage I think of the mosaic of Saskatchewan culture certainly is Ukrainian. More recently we’re seeing Filipino, Sikh, Hindu, Mr. Speaker. In fact people have moved to this province from over 90 countries around the world as we continue to grow, not only economically and try to produce an inclusive economy, Mr. Speaker, but continue to grow, I would say, in people and continue to grow in the cultures that are coming here.

This legislative year, what you will see from this government, Mr. Speaker, will be the introduction of a bill that is going to recognize really everyone in the province. Multis e gentibus vires is the motto of the province, “from many peoples, strength.” Mr. Speaker, that is going to be the name of the bill that is going to recognize the mosaic of culture that this province has and always has had, Mr. Speaker. And that bill is going to ensure that all of the . . . And we will consult with the various heritages across Saskatchewan to ensure that we are recognizing things like Ukrainian Heritage Month, for example, this September, which will be recognized this year, Mr. Speaker. This bill will be inclusive, Mr. Speaker, of the true mosaic of culture that our province is made up of today.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Nutana.

Erika Ritchie: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s an honour to be on my feet and take a moment to welcome all of the members of the cultural communities who have joined us here today, and the students from the Connaught School. But I just want to make a particular mention and welcome to Rhonda Rosenberg, the executive director who has joined us here today from the Multicultural Council of Saskatchewan. I believe she has some other members along with her as well. And I ask all members to join me, inviting Rhonda and the Multicultural Council to their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina South Albert.

Aleana Young: — Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Request leave for extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Aleana Young: — Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to welcome a group of 52 grade 6, 7, and 8 students here today from Dr. A.E. Perry School. It’s a great school in my community and just an excellent facility. And I’m so thrilled to have these young people here today for all the introductions, to sit amongst all these wonderful guests, as well as enjoy what will undoubtedly be a fun question period. And look forward to answering any questions that you may have about the legislature, political life, or proceedings in or outside of the building after we’re done here.

And while I’m on my feet, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to chime in and say a couple words about some of the educators that we have joining us here from Saskatoon. I’ve got a personal relationship with Deanna Fast, and in finding out that she was coming today, she told me about some of her exceptional colleagues that have joined us here.

And I wanted to take the opportunity to recognize them for all the work that they do, starting with Samina Mahmood. She and her husband arrived in Canada with their three children in 2022 through the SINP [Saskatchewan immigrant nominee program] program. And a month after her arrival, she began her job as what’s been described to me as one of the most dedicated, patient, and hard-working EAs [educational assistant] for Saskatoon Public.

When she immigrated to Canada, she came with her 22‑year-old daughter, Manahil, and her two sons, Iman who’s 18, I believe, and Momin who’s 14. Deanna tells me she’s just an incredible caregiver. She shares her passion for learning, for cooking, for her religion with her community and their school. She even went so far as to arrange a tour of a mosque and a Hindu temple to help teach her students about tolerance and respect for others.

Deanna asked me to make sure that I noted that when she talked about moving to Canada from her native Pakistan, she made sure to talk about how grateful she is to the kind people of Canada and to the endless opportunities for her children to be educated in a safe and inclusive community in Saskatoon.

I also want to shout-out Meagen Dunn, who’s the part-time job share with Deanna. And I’ve learned that her dedication to sustainability includes living off-grid on her land outside of the city with her partner, Matt, and her two boys, Zajah and Sebastian.

Lauren McPhedrian, who’s a resource teacher who is constantly supporting her students with special needs with firm but consistent expectations for them to be successful.

And last but not least, Deanna Fast, who’s in her 19th year of teaching and asked me to make sure that I noted her deep love and affection for the group of students that she’s here with. She said some of them she’s taught for up to three years and are respectful, considerate, and leaders of the school and of the province for the future. And she’s just so fond of them, Mr. Speaker.

So with that, I’ll ask all members just to join me once more in welcoming these exceptional educators and students to this, their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Southeast.

Brittney Senger: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to request a leave for an extended introduction.

Speaker Goudy: — The member has requested leave for an extended introduction. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Brittney Senger: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize my family that has joined me here today. My grandparents, Rose and Dale Rawluk, they are very active in their church in Saskatoon, Saints Peter & Paul Ukrainian Catholic Church. My grandpa founded his own business as an ironworker, F.L.R Steel. And my grandma spent her life as a caregiver, running a daycare, and has always been very active in the community.

I’d also like to recognize my mom, Jennifer Senger, who’s here today. My mom is a small-business owner. She owns a flower shop in the Riversdale area and has owned and operated it for over 30 years. I’d also like to recognize my two siblings that are here today, Laura Senger and Ben Senger. They work at a well-known locally owned business in Saskatoon, Baba’s Perogies. I would say that arguably they have the best perogies in Saskatoon.

And while I’m on my feet, I would like to recognize a constituency assistant who has been supporting me in my office, Sebastian Gardulski. Sebastian and I previously danced together at Yevshan. Currently Sebastian sits on the board of Yevshan Vesna. He is on the board of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress in Saskatoon and a member of the national Ukrainian congress. I would like to invite all members to join me in welcoming them to their Legislative Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina University.

Sally Housser: — Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I know it’s been a long process of introductions, and there’s nobody that’s going to feel that more in this legislature than my good friend Dion Tchorzewski, who I’d like to introduce here to you this evening.

When I first moved to Regina the marriage of New Democrat, Ukrainian, political, and law was a lot, and he’s been an excellent friend to myself for a decade. I know what his schedule is like, so sitting through a half-hour of introductions is probably not what he banked on. But very, very briefly, to you and through you, I would like to ask the House to join me in welcoming my good friend Dion Tchorzewski to the legislature once again.

PRESENTING PETITIONS

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Walsh Acres.

Jared Clarke: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a pleasure to be on my feet today to bring forward a petition calling on the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan to call for real action on climate change. Of course as I mentioned in my introductions, I’ve got 567 signatures from Youth for Climate Action here today.

I’m glad to hear that the Environment minister reads these petitions because I know the youth here will be hoping he reads these ones, and actually hoping to meet with the minister after question period today if he’s amicable to that.

I’ll read part of some of what they wish to bring to our attention: that Saskatchewan, like other jurisdictions, continues to experience the challenges brought on by climate change — severe forest and grassland fires, increased flooding, and drought; that Saskatchewan is falling behind other jurisdictions on climate action with no green jobs plan, no plan to tackle greenhouse gas emissions, and no incentives for renewable energy; and that between 2005 and 2023 the Sask Party government failed to reduce Saskatchewan’s total greenhouse gas emissions.

Mr. Speaker, I’ll read the prayer:

We, in the prayer that reads as follows, respectfully request that the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan call on the Government of Saskatchewan to take real action on climate change.

Mr. Speaker, the signatories reside in Saskatoon and Regina. I do so submit.

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Churchill-Wildwood.

St. Frances Cree Bilingual School Embodies Reconciliation

Keith Jorgenson: — Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to talk about St. Frances Cree Bilingual School in Saskatoon. The new school building is nearing completion in the great riding of Churchill-Wildwood.

The school is perhaps the most unique school building in all of Saskatchewan. The walls have free-flowing architecture with Cree syllabic letters cast into the very concrete walls. The walls are symbolic of so much, Mr. Speaker. The residential school system attempted to erase Indigenous people’s culture, language, and the connection to the land that had existed for 10,000 years.

As a word nerd, Mr. Speaker, I’ve always loved the goal of reconciliation but also the word itself. The word “reconciliation” demands action, Mr. Speaker. When I think of the word “reconciliation,” I think of the way accountants use the word. When we reconcile books, Mr. Speaker, we attempt to balance the negatives with the positives of the same weight.

Reconciliation is not just a feeling or a land acknowledgement. It has a concrete action. St. Frances School embodies that, Mr. Speaker. It embodies reconciliation. The concrete walls have the shape of the river valley. The embossed Cree letters create a space for language that was taken away.

Let us all make the space and the voice for reconciliation in all that we do here, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Cut Knife-Turtleford.

Community Volunteer Recognized by Saskatchewan Parks and Recreation Association

James Thorsteinson: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Keith Wilson, a passionate community volunteer from the town of Unity, was the recipient of the Volunteer Champion Award given out by Saskatchewan Parks and Recreation Association last November.

[14:15]

Mr. Speaker, Keith was nominated for the award by Lisa Feser, director of parks, culture, and recreation for the town of Unity. Lisa indicated that when she sees Keith’s name on the list of volunteers, she knows that not only will the job be done, it will be done well.

Over the years, Keith has helped in the development of several projects within the community. Keith helped develop 5 kilometres of walking paths within the town. He was also instrumental in the development of their community ball diamond complex. Mr. Speaker, Keith was also part of the Communities in Bloom for seven years, and during that time, the town of Unity was the Communities in Bloom national award winner in 2003.

Keith said, “It is important to be a part of the fabric of your community through volunteerism.” Mr. Speaker, volunteers help shape our communities, and I ask that all members of this Assembly join me in congratulating Keith Wilson on his well-deserved Volunteer Champion Award. Thank you, Keith, for all you have given and done for the community of Unity.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Southeast.

Solidarity with Victims of Attacks in Ukraine

Brittney Senger: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today with a heavy heart to acknowledge the devastating missile attack that struck Kyiv last week.

In the early hours as families slept, dozens of missiles targeted civilians across the country. At least a dozen lives were lost and many more were injured, including children and pregnant women. Fires broke out and people were trapped under rubble. What should have been a night of rest became one of terror, destruction, and grief. This was not an accident.

The scale and coordination of the attack suggest it was meant to do maximum harm, not only to infrastructure but to hope itself.

In a striking turn just this week, Russia announced it is seeking a temporary three-day ceasefire in May. Then last night they launched 108 drone attacks at Ukraine. This behaviour raises difficult questions about motives and timing. While any pause in violence is welcome for those living under constant threat, the international community must remain clear-eyed and cautious about the intentions behind such gestures.

Canadians stand in solidarity with the people of Ukraine. We mourn those who lost their loved ones and we reaffirm our commitment to peace, justice, and international law. Let us never grow numb to the suffering of others, and may we continue to use our voices to call out violence whenever it occurs.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Health.

Municipal Employees Keep Communities Functioning

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago we had the opportunity to attend the annual SUMA [Saskatchewan Urban Municipalities Association] convention and engage with municipal leadership from communities large and small right across the province. And we sure appreciate these elected leaders stepping up for their communities and working with us to make Saskatchewan a better place to live.

But I want to draw attention to and thank another group of people that do that same work each and every day: the thousands of municipal employees across the province that maintain municipal roads, keep our communities safe, make sure that clean water and sewage flow in the right direction, and provide our families with recreational opportunities.

At the SUMA convention, many of these employees were honoured for their long service to their communities and our province. There were people from places like Lemberg and Lumsden and Swift Current, but I’d like to take an opportunity to highlight the individuals from North Battleford who have served our city so well.

Dean Acaster, who has served 20 years in the roadways department; Joe Gagne, 25 years serving in the city’s public works department; Chris Gerstenhofer, who has worked 25 years in the parks department; Rob Campbell, who has served for 30 years in our city’s fire department and is currently a captain; and Mitch Mazurek, who recently retired after 35 years in the roadways department for the city of North Battleford.

I’d like to thank these people for how they’ve served our community and ask all members to thank the thousands of people across the province that keep our communities going. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Elphinstone-Centre.

North Central Regina Works to Address Community Cleanup Needs

Meara Conway: — Thank you. North Central is a unique, vibrant, and deeply challenged community. It has suffered disproportionately because of the Sask Party’s inaction on houselessness, mental health, and addiction.

Every spring is a shock as the neighbourhood grapples with a torrent of trash and illegal dumping. The community often relies on volunteers and grassroots community-led cleanups. Many partners play an active role: the North Central Community Association, White Pony Lodge, local businesses, the city, and many others. Last time I was out, we were joined by SaskEnergy, Cowessess First Nation, and the Growing Young Movers program, all working to stave off the worst.

Even so, each year the deep frustration is resurrected. Passionate community members like Erinn Paik and her husband, Peter, who don’t feel heard are spurred to action. And on that note, join them and White Pony Lodge at a community-led cleanup May 3rd, 12 to 3. Meet in Buffalo Meadows Park. Join for a barbecue after. Bring your trucks and your elbow grease.

This time last year, Brayan Hill, an incredible resident with a heart of gold, helped organize similar cleanups with the support of former city councillor Andrew Stevens, who pushed for many solutions, greater fines, enforcement, and helped to establish a dedicated cleanup crew in North Central, which is now off the ground. Councillor Zachidniak is now building on that work, pushing for new initiatives including an expansion of that dedicated crew year-round.

The scale of the issue is astounding. We must ask, what brings someone to rip through their trash for survival? Why can some landlords do so little to maintain properties? When will the neglect of North Central stop, which broadcasts it’s fair game for illegal dumping?

While we can focus on cleaning up the garbage — and I thank those who do — we need to look at root causes. A good start: a provincial government that works for all residents, including the most vulnerable.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Batoche.

Prince Albert Student Awarded Circle of Honour Scholarship

Darlene Rowden: — Mr. Speaker, I rise today to share some incredible news about a young woman from Batoche constituency who’s making us all proud. Katelynn Tait, a grade 12 student from Carlton high school in Prince Albert and long-time member of our local 4‑H beef club, is the recipient of the University of Saskatchewan’s Circle of Honour entrance scholarship worth $30,000.

This award is given to Indigenous students who show outstanding academic achievement, strong community involvement, and a commitment to citizenship. Katelynn checks every box. Her 97 per cent average speaks for itself; her years in 4‑H show a deep dedication to service and learning to do by doing; and her leadership on a Truth and Reconciliation project at Carlton shows heart and vision for a better future.

Katelynn plans to study education at the U of S [University of Saskatchewan], majoring in physics with a minor in mathematics. She’s passionate about increasing representation of women and Indigenous people in science, and she’s ready to be a part of that change.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join me in congratulating Katelynn Tait. Her hard work, leadership, and drive are a true inspiration.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Weyburn-Bengough.

Pilot Project in Weyburn Offers Choices for Mental Health Care

Michael Weger: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government of Saskatchewan is proud to announce that we have expanded the way Saskatchewan residents are able to access prescription mental health medications, through our new Weyburn pharmacy pilot project.

This project will allow the management of mental health medications to take place directly with the pharmacy, with the pilot project being first launched in Weyburn after an agreement was reached with Dr. Thomas Ofuafor. This allows his patients to seek care for mental health medication management at Pharmasave Weyburn through pharmacist Laura Resler or another pharmacist at her location.

This project will allow patients to access care in a more flexible and timely manner, as well as giving patients more choices in their care. The project will be collaborative, allowing patients to be involved in the decision-making process about their care when it comes to initiating changes or discontinuations. A similar agreement has also been reached with Weyburn Prairie Sky Co-op pharmacy, which will begin offering this service in early May of this year.

This government is committed to finding innovative solutions to assist patients with their medical needs. By allowing our world-class pharmacists to use their expertise to participate in the management of mental health medications, we are allowing more residents to have faster access and more options to choose from when considering their mental health care needs. Thank you.

QUESTION PERIOD

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Leader of the Opposition.

National Unity and Government Response to Tariffs

Carla Beck: — Yesterday, yesterday Premier Smith blew the door wide open to a vote on Alberta separating from Canada. Mr. Speaker, this is reckless, and even the talk of separatism will kill investment in Canada, kill jobs, and cause more hardship to people who are already struggling, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday I also asked the Premier if he would rule out any such vote here in Saskatchewan. He ducked my question. But the answer is incredibly important, so I’m going to ask him again. Will he commit here and now that there will never be a vote like this in Saskatchewan, and will he call his friend in Alberta and tell her to stop fanning the flames of separatism?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Premier.

Hon. Scott Moe: — Mr. Speaker, on the floor of this Assembly and virtually in many places across Saskatchewan, the only people I hear bringing up the discussion around separation, Mr. Speaker, is the Leader of the Opposition. Certainly on the floor of this Assembly the only people speaking about separation is the opposition party, where they separated from their parent party, Mr. Speaker, with the most recent federal election where we saw the entire takeover of the NDP [New Democratic Party].

Mr. Speaker, with respect to referendums and plebiscites in this province, there’s legislation that very much lays out when the people of this province are able to make that happen. When there is 15 per cent of signatures of the number of electors that we have, then the government is required by legislation to run a plebiscite, Mr. Speaker.

So the answer to the Leader of the Opposition’s question is no, because we’ll follow the legislation that’s been enacted by former governments.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Leader of the Opposition.

Carla Beck: — Mr. Speaker, this is a time for us to unite as a country, to build our economy from coast to coast, but the Premier’s own friends would have us tear the country apart. And you know who likes that, Mr. Speaker? Donald Trump because he wants to divide us, and he keeps threatening to make us the 51st state.

Now, Mr. Speaker, it’s already having consequences. Today we learned that Ontario could see 68,000 jobs lost this year alone as a result of this chaos with Donald Trump. We’ve asked how many jobs Saskatchewan stands to lose. We’ve asked both the Premier and we’ve asked the Finance minister, but they’ve refused to answer the question. I’m going to assume that they either don’t know or they’re too scared to tell the people of Saskatchewan.

But I’m going to ask again. How many Saskatchewan jobs are at risk because of Donald Trump’s threats and tariffs?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Premier.

Hon. Scott Moe: — Mr. Speaker, with respect to the tariffs, there’s three levels of tariffs that were threatened by the president of the United States.

As you know, I was down in Washington a number of times, one of those times with a number of industry representatives, Mr. Speaker, engaging with all levels of decision- and policy-makers throughout Washington, whether it be some of President Trump’s cabinet, the senators, the congressmen, governors across the country.

And we were happy when energy was exempted from any of the Trump tariffs that were there, Mr. Speaker. We were happy when we saw potash also being exempted from the Trump tariffs. And then further, all USMCA [United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement]-compliant goods — which is the lion’s share — largely all of the products coming from Saskatchewan that are exported into the United States with the exception of steel, Mr. Speaker.

And in the case of steel, what we did was engage with our steelmakers in this province, pulled forward some of the procurement of our Crown utilities, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that we’re providing the stability to that industry in a very uncertain time due to decisions and announcements around tariffs of the president of the United States.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Leader of the Opposition.

Health Care Staffing and Access to Health Care

Carla Beck: — The question was about how many jobs, Mr. Speaker. But you know, speaking of jobs in this province, right now 30 Saskatchewan communities are seeing in-person health care replaced with what they’re calling virtual health care. Now virtual health care does have a place for non-emergencies, for medical assessments. But for the last two days, that Minister of Health has stood in his place and endorsed doctors over webcams to treat things like appendicitis, broken legs, and even delivering babies. Mr. Speaker, it’s unreal.

Will the Premier today tell his Health minister that webcam health care, this scheme is not only ludicrous, it’s also dangerous for Saskatchewan people?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Premier.

Hon. Scott Moe: — There are a number of options and opportunities, I think, for virtual care, not just here in Saskatchewan but across Canada, that are being utilized, Mr. Speaker, to support patient care and to support the work that our medical professionals are doing.

Many of those virtual options are actually being asked for by the medical community, Mr. Speaker, to support the work and the care that they’re providing to Saskatchewan people. And I would point to the partnership between the federal government, the province, and the community of Dakota Whitecap, Mr. Speaker, led by Dr. Mendez from the University of Saskatchewan, providing virtual health care to not only a number of northern communities — and our northern leaders have left here, Mr. Speaker — but Gravelbourg as well would be another community that is accessing that care.

[14:30]

And so there is a place for virtual health care to support our medical health professionals in providing the services that they do, Mr. Speaker, and to ensure that Saskatchewan people have every access to every tool that we can provide in the health care that they seek.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Leader of the Opposition.

Carla Beck: — Mr. Speaker, webcams don’t replace doctors, especially in emergency situations, and the Premier should understand that. Now already in this province, Saskatchewan is last in Canada when it comes to emergency wait times. We’re last when it comes to wait times for critical surgeries, and across this province we see emergency rooms closed on the regular without notice.

Mr. Speaker, it doesn’t help that they cut health spending in their most recent budget on page 27. Will the Premier admit that his government is resorting to webcam medicine and that it’s only proof that their plan that they wave around about health care recruitment and especially retention has failed miserably?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Premier.

Hon. Scott Moe: — Mr. Speaker, recruitment and retention is a topic of discussion on virtually every Council of Federation meeting that I’ve attended for the last number of years, Mr. Speaker, not only funding from the federal government but how we can ensure that we are strengthening each of our provincial systems by attracting and having proper health human resource action plans in place, trying not to compete too largely with one another to improve health care across the nation collectively, Mr. Speaker. That’s the conversations that we’re having.

And I’m happy to say, as has been said many times on the floor of this Assembly, that Saskatchewan has in excess of $100 million invested in one of the most, if not the most, ambitious health human resource plan, in the nation of Canada.

And when it comes to our investment in health care, there was a campaign just less than a year ago, Mr. Speaker, where we did talk about health care and affordability. There was a Speech from the Throne where there was commitments made, Mr. Speaker. And most recently there was a budget introduced — pardon me, a balanced budget introduced — on the floor of this Assembly, Mr. Speaker, that had an increase to the health care budget this year of $485 million.

Mr. Speaker, the members opposite campaigned on increasing the health care budget this year $115 million. That’s a $370 million cut that they would have delivered to Saskatchewan people.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Elphinstone-Centre.

Meara Conway: — Mr. Speaker, it is getting tiresome to hear that government stand up every day and tout this plan from 2002 as the most ambitious in the country when it has driven us to last place for health care worker retention. Mr. Speaker, we are in last place. Rural hospitals and ERs [emergency room] face health care blackouts all the time because of the Sask Party’s failure to recruit and retain staff.

Women should feel safe in their communities, safe to give birth close to home with a real doctor in a real hospital — IRL [in real life], not over Zoom. When will we see a real plan from the Sask Party to get doctors, not webcams, for women giving birth in this province?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Health.

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When it comes to recruiting physicians in this province, last fiscal year that just ended March 31st, 2025, we successfully recruited nearly 200 doctors to the province of Saskatchewan — specialists practising in our large centres and family physicians practising in communities large and small right across the province, Mr. Speaker.

I’ve talked in previous days in question period and at other events about our rural and remote recruitment incentive, Mr. Speaker. Filled over 400 full-time positions of health care professions in rural and remote communities right across the province, Mr. Speaker. We just added 16 more communities to that eligibility list to extend that incentive to more communities right across the province, Mr. Speaker. Whether that’s Foam Lake or Candle Lake or Central Butte, Mr. Speaker, we are working ambitiously to hire and retain health care workers in this province.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Elphinstone-Centre.

Meara Conway: — Mr. Speaker, how many did they lose? When you have a gaping wound, the first order of business is to stop the bleeding, Mr. Speaker. The Sask Party broke our health care system. They can’t be trusted to fix it. Webcams are not emergency room doctors. In life-threatening situations there is no substitute for seeing a doctor in person.

Even CIHI [Canadian Institute for Health Information] has said that only 10 per cent of emergency room visits can safely be treated by virtual care. No parent with a sick kid should be left wondering if a glitchy video is all they’re going to get, Mr. Speaker.

Doesn’t he realize that a webcam is no substitute for a real doctor in an emergency?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Health.

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — You know, Mr. Speaker, you want to talk about a wound to rural health care in this province, it’s closing 52 hospitals in rural Saskatchewan. It’s shutting down health care facilities, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can assure . . .

[Interjections]

Speaker Goudy: — I’m asking for decorum in the Chamber.

Minister of Health.

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is why we have a health human resources action plan, the most ambitious in the country, Mr. Speaker, to train more students here in the province, whether they be physicians or nurses or other professions all across the province. Whether that be bringing in international health care workers, whether that be recruiting and retaining from other parts of the country, that’s exactly what our plan does, Mr. Speaker.

But, Mr. Speaker, the virtual physician program that’s being talked about on the floor of this Assembly, it is a program that we can be proud of, Mr. Speaker. Nearly 4,000 patients have been able to be seen by a physician through this program, Mr. Speaker. Stabilizing services in rural Saskatchewan while we work to recruit, that’s good news for rural Saskatchewan.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Athabasca.

Access to Health Care in the North

Leroy Laliberte: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was a real honour to have the Meadow Lake Tribal Council with us here in the Assembly today. We had an important discussion this morning with our leader and also with those incredible leaders in northern Saskatchewan.

What we heard was the severe lack in access to basic health care in the North. And these are the facts, Mr. Speaker. Emergency homes closed, long-term care facilities aren’t happening, and no supports for cancer treatment. None is available without travelling hundreds of kilometres, Mr. Speaker, hundreds of kilometres. Why has this government failed so badly to deliver health care in the North, health care people deserve throughout this province?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Health.

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — I guess I’d ask that member why he voted against additional funding for a new EMS [emergency medical services] facility in his home constituency in Beauval in this budget that we just passed in this House, Mr. Speaker.

Again, Mr. Speaker, this is a government that is focused on enhancing access to health care right across the province. Whether you live in the North, whether you live in rural communities, whether you live in Saskatoon or Regina, Mr. Speaker, we are working to increase health care access right across the province.

The Premier in a previous answer, Mr. Speaker, talked about the virtual health hub and Dr. Mendez’s work and our government’s partnership with Whitecap Dakota First Nation that is servicing communities all across the North, ensuring that they have access to better care. I’d be happy to talk more about that. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Athabasca.

Leroy Laliberte: — Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health needs to get his facts straight. People in the North can hardly get an audience with this government, let alone health care they need to live and survive. We have folks driving 15 hours, like I brought up last time, for dialysis treatment. Others forced to live away from their communities and families, they can’t get the basic health care that they need, and they’re dying alone in the South, Mr. Speaker.

This is unimaginable and this is totally unacceptable. When will the minister be done giving himself a pat on the back, and can he explain why he celebrates while people in communities . . .

[Interjections]

Speaker Goudy: — I just was going to caution the member . . . Order. Order. I was going to caution the member, just talking about getting facts straight and patting on the back, we’re descending into where we don’t want to be. Please finish your question and we’ll have the answer.

Leroy Laliberte: — Mr. Speaker, when will the Health minister stay focused on the important initiatives that are put forward by the Meadow Lake Tribal Council and the 18,000 members that they serve?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Health.

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is a focus of this government, Mr. Speaker. That’s why we’re expanding dialysis capacity in Meadow Lake, Mr. Speaker, to serve the people in those communities that exactly he’s talking about, Mr. Speaker.

You know, Mr. Speaker, when it comes to virtual care and how it serves the North, Mr. Speaker, I found an old article from March 2025. A CBC [Canadian Broadcasting Corporation] article talks about virtual care being delivered to a gentleman in Stony Rapids, Mr. Speaker. And I’ll read:

. . . he walked into the local hospital near Stony Rapids, about 800 kilometres north of Saskatoon, to get looked at by a robot. Through a screen, Powder met [with] a sonographer in Saskatoon who controlled the machine’s probe remotely with a computer. “Rather than wait weeks for the results, you only wait two, three days. Technology is going a long way and I figured that was really something.”

Mr. Speaker, obviously our absolute priority is to get nurses and doctors recruited into communities all across the province, Mr. Speaker. When we’re unable to do that, Mr. Speaker, we still want to ensure that access to health care remains in those communities. That is exactly why we have these virtual options, to serve our constituents all across the province.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Athabasca.

Leroy Laliberte: — Mr. Speaker, obviously the Health minister needs to get a map because the roads travelling from La Loche to get to Meadow Lake, the roads from Turnor Lake, from Dillon, from Michel Village, from all of these places to receive the care in Meadow Lake is just not happening, Mr. Speaker.

We also heard this morning about the dire need for a real Indigenous economic strategy, Mr. Speaker. There are so many resources in the North, something I spoke about before, billions of dollars being pulled out in the North, but the people that live there don’t feel included with the benefits, including basic health care. They have no supports, no health care, and the cost of everyday goods is unbelievable. This government has no plan when it comes to economic reconciliation.

Why, Mr. Speaker, why are the northern people being left out?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Health.

Hon. Jeremy Cockrill: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do have a map. I have travelled to the North several times, Mr. Speaker. I’ve driven Highway 155. When I was minister of Highways, Mr. Speaker, we initiated additional significant investment into Highway 155 to ensure again, Mr. Speaker, that residents of the North had better transportation to get the goods and services that they require.

When it comes to economic reconciliation, Mr. Speaker, and ensuring that we have access to health care, this is a government that’s absolutely focused on that. The Minister of CIC mentioned tomorrow there’s going to be an announcement with MLTC. We look forward to more partnerships with communities like this right across the province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Nutana.

Proposed Purchase of ISC Shares

Erika Ritchie: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ISC [Information Services Corporation of Saskatchewan] is fighting off a bad deal and takeover of their company. There is real danger that a company based in Barbados will soon control our public records and land titles. They’re planning to increase fees for people and cut costs and jobs.

I wish I could say this was no one’s fault and no one could have seen this coming, but that is just not the case. When the Sask Party sold off ISC, New Democrats warned them it was a bad idea. Does the minister now acknowledge that privatizing ISC left it vulnerable to a foreign takeover?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Crown Investments Corporation.

Hon. Jeremy Harrison: — Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As the member had asked yesterday and had asked at committee a number of weeks ago — and it was the response given both yesterday and at that point — obviously I can’t comment on the current takeover attempt, Mr. Speaker. I can’t comment on that.

But what I can tell you is that the representatives appointed by the government to act as board members are going to do everything necessary to protect the interests of the people of this province.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Nutana.

Erika Ritchie: — And, Mr. Speaker, the Sask Party kept a 29 per cent stake and their so-called golden share when they sold off ISC. But Plantro Ltd. from Barbados is taking advantage of a loophole that the Sask Party left in, and that’s how they might end up taking over a profitable company that used to belong to Saskatchewan people.

It’s a bad deal, and the CIC minister was in government when they sold it off. Does the Minister take any responsibility for the mess we’re faced with today?

[14:45]

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Crown Investments Corporation.

Hon. Jeremy Harrison: — Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And as I have already said, I obviously can’t comment on the specifics. But what I can assure the people of the province is that the representatives appointed by the government will do all that is necessary to protect the interests of the people of this province.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Nutana.

Erika Ritchie: — Mr. Speaker, that is cold comfort. What I want to know is who’s next? SaskTel? SaskPower? SGI [Saskatchewan Government Insurance]? So long as that Sask Party agenda is privatization at all costs, any one of our Crowns could end up . . .

Speaker Goudy: — I’m going to ask for the next question.

Erika Ritchie: — The risks of privatization aren’t worth the costs. Will the minister completely rule out sell-offs of our Crown corporations, yes or no?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Crown Investments Corporation.

Hon. Jeremy Harrison: — Wow. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Crown corporations are not for sale. And we’ve been in government now for five terms and they haven’t been for sale, Mr. Speaker. We’re not waiting for term five to pounce.

But what I can say with regard to the other elements of the question, Mr. Speaker, I can’t comment on the specifics of the ISC issue. But I can assure the people of the province that the representatives on the board appointed by the government will protect the interests of this public.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Rochdale.

Child Care Agreement with Federal Government

Joan Pratchler: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well here we are. Mr. Speaker, the Education minister said that negotiations would carry on for a deal for $10‑a-day child care during the federal election campaign. Then the minister admitted no deal would be made while the campaign is on. Mr. Speaker, then the minister said that when the election is over he’ll resume negotiations to get Saskatchewan its child care deal.

The election is over. So I ask the minister, what is the plan to resume negotiations for getting Saskatchewan its much-awaited child care deal?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Education.

Hon. Everett Hindley: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I’ve said multiple times before, this government remains committed to negotiating with the federal government, the new federal government, on the extension of this particular deal for Saskatchewan, Mr. Speaker.

Looking at the news today, The Globe and Mail is reporting that the Prime Minister has not yet appointed a federal cabinet. As a matter of fact it’s expected in a couple of weeks. If you look at the Prime Minister’s website, he still has an old cabinet listed there which actually includes the Health minister who lost her seat. So clearly they haven’t moved to appoint a new cabinet, Mr. Speaker.

But as I’ve said previously, our officials, myself as the minister, remain prepared and ready to negotiate to make sure that we can get the best deal for the people of Saskatchewan, for families, for child care operators, to make sure that we support child care all across this province, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Churchill-Wildwood.

Legislation to Recognize Ukrainian Heritage

Keith Jorgenson: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, September is Ukrainian Heritage Month in Saskatchewan, and we’re joined by a lot of proud members of the Ukrainian community from all over Saskatchewan here today. Today I’m introducing The Ukrainian Heritage Month Act. As we know, Ukrainians helped build this province. They’ve enriched our community through contributions to agriculture, business, politics, and culture. Many Ukrainians also recently have come to Saskatchewan as a safe haven during times of war, oppression, and displacement.

And I ask the government, on behalf of all the members of the Ukrainian community here today, will the government pass our Ukrainian heritage month Act before we rise this spring?

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Parks, Culture and Sport.

Hon. Alana Ross: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and as I said in my introduction, welcome to all the Ukrainian guests that we have here today.

As the Premier indicated in his introduction, our government will be bringing legislation to the House this fall that will codify into law cultural heritage recognitions that have previously been done by proclamations. I currently have a letter in my office from members of the Ukrainian council asking that we proclaim this September as Ukrainian Heritage Month. And it is going to be my privilege to do that.

Once the new Act is in place that we will be introducing, Ukrainian Heritage Month and all other cultural heritage days we already proclaim will automatically be acknowledged. This bill, as the Premier indicated, will be called “from many peoples, strength” as we celebrate the multicultural fabric of our province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill No. 603 — The Ukrainian Heritage Month Act

Keith Jorgenson: — Mr. Speaker, I move . . .

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Churchill-Wildwood.

Keith Jorgenson: — Apologies. Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill 603, The Ukrainian Heritage Month Act, be now introduced and read for the first time.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the member from Saskatoon Churchill-Wildwood that Bill No. 603, The Ukrainian Heritage Month Act, be now introduced and read a first time. Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Deputy Clerk: — First reading of this bill.

Speaker Goudy: — When shall the bill be read a second time? I recognize the member from Saskatoon Churchill-Wildwood.

Keith Jorgenson: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the next sitting of the Assembly.

Speaker Goudy: — Next sitting.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Chair of the Standing Committee on the Economy.

Standing Committee on the Economy

James Thorsteinson: — Mr. Speaker, I am instructed by the Standing Committee on the Economy to report Bill No. 17, The Saskatchewan Commercial Innovation Incentive (Patent Box) Amendment Act, 2025 without amendment.

Speaker Goudy: — When shall this bill be considered in Committee of the Whole on Bills? I recognize the Minister of Trade and Export Development.

Hon. Warren Kaeding: — I request leave to waive consideration in Committee of the Whole on this bill and that the bill now be read a third time.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave to waive consideration in the Committee of the Whole on Bill No. 17, The Saskatchewan Commercial Innovation Incentive (Patent Box) Amendment Act, 2025 and that the bill be now read the third time. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — The speaker may proceed to move third reading.

THIRD READINGS

Bill No. 17 — The Saskatchewan Commercial Innovation Incentive (Patent Box) Amendment Act, 2025

Hon. Warren Kaeding: — I move that the bill now be read the third time and passed under its title.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the minister that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title. Is the Assembly ready for the question?

Some Hon. Members: — Question.

Speaker Goudy: — Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Deputy Clerk: — Third reading of this bill.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Chair of the Standing Committee on the Economy.

Standing Committee on the Economy

James Thorsteinson: — Mr. Speaker, I am instructed by the Standing Committee on the Economy to report Bill No. 20, The Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Investment Tax Credit Act without amendment.

Speaker Goudy: — When shall this bill be considered in Committee of the Whole on Bills? I recognize the Minister of Trade and Export Development.

Hon. Warren Kaeding: — I request leave to waive consideration in the Committee of the Whole on this bill and that the bill now be read the third time.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave to waive consideration in the Committee of the Whole on Bill No. 20, The Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Investment Tax Credit Act and that the bill be now read the third time. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister may proceed to move third reading.

THIRD READINGS

Bill No. 20 — The Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Investment Tax Credit Act

Hon. Warren Kaeding: — I move that the bill now be read the third time and passed under its title.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the minister that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title. Is the Assembly ready for the question?

Some Hon. Members: — Question.

Speaker Goudy: — Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Deputy Clerk: — Third reading of this bill.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Chair of the Standing Committee on Human Services.

Standing Committee on Human Services

Michael Weger: — Mr. Speaker, I am instructed by the Standing Committee on Human Services to report Bill No. 4, The Workers’ Compensation Amendment Act, 2024 without amendment.

Speaker Goudy: — When shall this bill be considered in the Committee of the Whole on Bills? I recognize the Minister of Labour Relations and Workplace Safety.

Hon. Jim Reiter: — I request leave to waive consideration in Committee of the Whole on this bill and that the bill be now read the third time.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave to waive consideration in the Committee of the Whole on Bill No. 4, The Workers’ Compensation Amendment Act, 2024 and that the bill be now read the third time. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister may proceed to move third reading.

THIRD READINGS

Bill No. 4 — The Workers’ Compensation Amendment Act, 2024

Hon. Jim Reiter: — I move that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the minister that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title. Is the Assembly ready for the question?

Some Hon. Members: — Question.

Speaker Goudy: — Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Deputy Clerk: — Third reading of this bill.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Chair of the Standing Committee on Human Services.

Standing Committee on Human Services

Michael Weger: — Mr. Speaker, I am instructed by the Standing Committee on Human Services to report Bill No. 5, The Saskatchewan Employment Amendment Act, 2024 without amendment.

Speaker Goudy: — When shall this bill be considered in the Committee of the Whole on Bills? I recognize the Minister of Labour Relations and Workplace Safety.

Hon. Jim Reiter: — I request leave to waive consideration in Committee of the Whole on this bill and that this bill be now read the third time.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave to waive consideration in the Committee of the Whole on Bill No. 5, The Saskatchewan Employment Amendment Act, 2024 and that the bill be now read the third time. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister may proceed to move third reading.

THIRD READINGS

Bill No. 5 — The Saskatchewan Employment Amendment Act, 2024

Hon. Jim Reiter: — I move that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the minister that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title. Is the Assembly ready for the question?

Some Hon. Members: — Question.

Speaker Goudy: — Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Deputy Clerk: — Third reading of this bill.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Chair of the Standing Committee on Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice.

Standing Committee on Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice

Blaine McLeod: — Mr. Speaker, I am instructed by the Standing Committee on Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice to report Bill No. 3, The Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods Amendment Act, 2024 without amendment.

Speaker Goudy: — When shall this bill be considered in Committee of the Whole on Bills? I recognize the Minister of Corrections, Policing and Public Safety.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to waive consideration in Committee of the Whole on this bill and that the bill be now read a third time.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister has requested leave to waive consideration in the Committee of the Whole on Bill No. 3, The Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods Amendment Act, 2024 without amendment and that the bill be now read the third time. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — The minister may proceed to move third reading.

THIRD READINGS

Bill No. 3 — The Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods Amendment Act, 2024

Hon. Tim McLeod: — I move that the bill be now read a third time and passed under its title.

Speaker Goudy: — It has been moved by the minister that the bill be now read the third time and passed under its title. Is the Assembly ready for the question?

Some Hon. Members: — Question.

Speaker Goudy: — Is it the pleasure of the Assembly to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Carried.

Deputy Clerk: — Third reading of this bill.

Speaker Goudy: — Why is the member on her feet?

Meara Conway: — Prior to orders of the day I seek leave to move a motion under rule 61, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — Will the member briefly state the purpose of the motion and read the text of the motion.

MOTION UNDER RULE 61

Use of Virtual Doctors

Meara Conway: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is an important motion about safety in our public health care system I hope that government will allow debate on. The motion reads as follows:

That the Assembly calls upon the government to ban the practice of using virtual doctors for patients giving birth to a child or experiencing a life-threatening emergency.

Speaker Goudy: — The member for Regina Elphinstone-Centre has requested leave to move without notice a motion of urgent or pressing necessity under rule 61. Is leave granted?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Speaker Goudy: — Leave has been granted. The member may proceed.

Meara Conway: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the members for granting leave. Mr. Speaker, this is a very important motion regarding health care in Saskatchewan. It is particularly impactful for, of course, our rural communities who have experienced, between August 2019 and May 2024, 4,000 days of disruptions to their emergency rooms and over 500 days of disruption to the obstetric wards.

[15:00]

We continue to hear horror stories as a result of these disruptions. One of the things that I learned upon taking over the shadow ministry of Rural and Remote Health is that this government has halted the practice of posting many of these disruptions publicly. Before the SHA [Saskatchewan Health Authority] will post it on their website, this disruption has to last longer or be of a more permanent nature. This leaves community members scrambling. They often don’t know if their local emergency room is open. They often don’t know if there’s a disruption to their obstetrical services.

And you know, I’ve spoken to the Minister of Health in estimates and in other . . . You know, it may embarrass this government a little bit to publish all those disruptions. I get that those numbers are very high. But it could save lives, and surely that should be the priority, Mr. Speaker.

So what has happened this week is we’ve raised this issue in the legislature. I was on the road last week across rural communities, raising the issue of disruptions to our health care system. And the Minister of Health, in response to those concerns, stated that he was very proud of a decision to expand the virtual physician program to more and more emergencies across Saskatchewan.

Now this was initially announced as a temporary measure. And like so many temporary band-aids we’ve seen this Sask Party government announce to deal with health care — be it travel nurses, be it sending women out of province for basic breast care — at the time we’re always told these are temporary measures to get us back on track. Then we see those measures expanded and solidified and they become the norm, and that’s what we’re very concerned about here.

I want to be very clear. There is a role for virtual care in our health care system. We see this across the world really, being used to great effect. Especially I think of the thousands of Saskatchewan residents who don’t have access to a family doctor. Sure, they would prefer to be able to see, to access primary care or a family doctor through virtual care, absolutely. It’s not ideal. It shouldn’t be the gold standard, but sure. Follow-ups for individuals in stable conditions, another completely acceptable situation where you’d see virtual care. But this movement to rely on virtual care in the urgent context of folks visiting their local emergency rooms? This is very concerning.

And it’s not just this opposition saying this. CIHI has released data on this, the Canadian Institute for Health Information. They have said that across Canada less than 9 per cent of visits to emergency rooms are appropriate for virtual care. Less than 9 per cent is the national average, and they have a Saskatchewan-specific number. It is on their website for all to access, and that number is 10.6 per cent. 10.6 per cent of all emergency room visits are appropriate for virtual care, could be handled safely by virtual care.

We don’t know what issue is going to show up in the emergency room. You know, common incidents in emergency rooms — abdominal pain; heart attacks; anything to do with pediatrics, really, Mr. Speaker; mental health crises; a woman who has gone into labour who has to be assessed. Is she safe to transfer to a community where her baby can be safely delivered? Or perhaps she needs some kind of emergency intervention — a C-section, God forbid. That woman has to be assessed before they can decide whether she’s safe to transfer. We can’t do that without a real person on hand, Mr. Speaker. This is setting up communities for very dangerous situations.

And we have heard concerns about this program across the community. And you know, I talk to residents too. And I’ll be blunt. You know, some of them say, well, it’s better than having a closed emergency room for another day. But it’s not ideal and it should not be the gold standard, and we should not see a plan to expand it. We should be seeing a plan to phase it out.

This is a government that keeps standing up day after day and telling us that their recruitment and retention strategy in health care is the most ambitious in the country. I have read this plan — six pages. Half of it are photos, Mr. Speaker. It was released in 2022, and it has driven us to the back of the pack when it comes to retaining health care workers.

And they can stand up and they can talk about how many new health care workers have been retained, but they never talk about net numbers. They never talk about how many people are actually working in those fields because we are bleeding people. We are driving them out of the province.

That is what is happening, and it needs to be addressed. And the Minister of Health, on Monday in question period he said, well I just wish the opposition would stop complaining — they point to the challenges — and offer up some ideas.

It took me an hour. Forty-five minutes, Mr. Speaker. I sat down and I put out 32 ideas, and those are just the ideas I collected last week from health care providers who are so eager to provide their ideas to this government. And I can give the Health minister, if he is open to collaborating on how to recruit and retain health care workers in Saskatchewan, I can gladly and in good faith supply him 32 more next week.

What we’re seeing here is a creep of virtual care where it is not appropriate, Mr. Speaker — emergencies, deliveries. Virtual physicians are not a substitute for addressing those disruptions, for addressing the very real crisis in our health care system.

And you know, I asked some pretty ridiculous questions this week. You know, I jokingly asked, okay, so in a virtual birth where exactly does the minister suggest we position the webcam? And it was a joke, and it was ridiculous. But we are in a ridiculous situation here.

I haven’t heard the government really walk us through the plan for making sure that we don’t again and again face situations like that, the one faced by Kendal Carlberg who went into labour, was turned away from the Meadow Lake Hospital, asked to drive to Lloydminster. And thank God she had no complications and she was able to give birth to a healthy little girl on the side of the road. But what if, Mr. Speaker? And why are we putting the people of Saskatchewan in this untenable situation?

You know, I think what struck me the most about the Minister of Health’s comments on this is that there is no humility behind this program. There is no suggestion that this is something that is really a last resort, a last resort for a redlining health care system. And let’s call it what it is. That’s what it is.

But for him to stand up and say he’s very proud of it, Mr. Speaker, for him to stand up and tell us it is a good-news story that the Sask Party government of Saskatchewan is having to rely on virtual physicians to provide emergency room care to rural communities, that that is somehow a good-news story. I am sorry. That is not a good-news story. If nothing else sounds the alarm in our public health care system, it should be that.

And we should be talking about a plan, a measurable plan, to phase out this reliance on virtual physicians in an urgent emergency context, Mr. Speaker. It is simply not safe. Don’t ask me; look to CIHI. And we need to be doing something about it, and that should be the focus. Not putting press releases out about what a great-news story this is that we’re expanding this program. Not pointing to a six-page retention plan that has by all measures failed, Mr. Speaker.

We should be convening an emergency round table of all providers in our health care system to come up with a new recruitment and retention plan. From my lips to their ears, there are so many good ideas out there, particularly in rural communities. These are people that are there because they are passionate about — often their home communities — but about what practising medicine in rural Saskatchewan has to offer. They are passionate about it. They’re worried it’s only going to get worse. They have so many ideas and that’s what we need to be focused on, Mr. Speaker, not selling this as some kind of solution to the current health care crisis.

So with that, Mr. Speaker, I’m happy to move the following motion:

That the Assembly calls upon the government to ban the practice of using virtual doctors for patients giving birth to a child or experiencing a life-threatening emergency.

I do so move.

Speaker Goudy: — It’s been moved by the member from Regina Elphinstone-Centre:

That the Assembly calls upon the government to ban the practice of using virtual doctors for patients giving birth to a child or experiencing a life-threatening emergency.

Is the Assembly ready for the question? I recognize the member from Martensville-Blairmore.

Hon. Jamie Martens: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am thankful for our health care system here in Saskatchewan, for our caring, hard-working health care workers and ministers. I am thankful for virtual care. Every mother matters, no matter where she lives. But saying that women in rural areas aren’t as important and don’t deserve virtual health care is not only heartless; it’s dangerous. Geography should not determine the value of life.

Rural women carry the same love, the same pain, and the same hope for their children as anyone else. To say their babies don’t deserve a chance at life in an emergency? Virtual care is an option. And why would we ban that? That women don’t deserve the option to contact a doctor in an emergency situation.

Whose life is more valuable? We don’t get to decide that and nor should we. Human dignity doesn’t come with a postal code, Mr. Speaker. In moments of childbirth, time and access can mean the difference between life and death. For too many women around the world, especially in rural areas, reaching a major hospital in time sometimes is just not an option.

Virtual doctors are medical professionals, transforming that terrifying reality into hope, guidance, and survival. Imagine a woman going into labour miles from the nearest hospital and having limited transportation options. Well that was me, Mr. Speaker.

In critical moments being able to connect with a virtual doctor can provide not only medical instruction but also emotional strength. The fact that the member opposite would imply that myself or any woman on this side of the House is not deserving of medical assistance during birth is downright repulsive.

Speaker Goudy: — I’m going to ask the member . . . Insinuating that that is the charge of the member on the other side, I would ask you to withdraw that and move on.

Hon. Jamie Martens: — I withdraw. Thank you. Virtual doctors or medical assistance is something all women need in this province and they could only dream of this years ago. It’s life-saving intervention. This service cannot only empower women but place knowledge in their hands.

I assisted in two births, Mr. Speaker. One on the side of the highway and one in an urban setting, when everyone didn’t have cell phones and there was no service in rural areas. Both of these situations, I was the only option that these women had. An amazing experience for myself and also a story to be told by mothers for years to come.

Women that live in rural settings know it may take longer to access health care, but they wouldn’t trade their way of life to live five minutes away from a hospital in an urban location. They deserve to live where they choose. These women are not just important . . . They’re important members and entitled to have the care needed during their childbirth.

[15:15]

Virtual care comes into play. The government has been investing in women’s health. I am proud of this government. I am proud of what these Health ministers have achieved. Not only am I proud as a mother — I’m a proud parent — I’m a proud member of Saskatchewan to say that this government, this government continues to help people around this province have access to health care, be it virtual, be it in the hospitals, the clinics, the urgent care centres. This government did not close 52 hospitals. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina South Albert.

Aleana Young: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll admit — I’ve got some notes in front of me — I’m not entirely sure where to go following the statement by the member opposite. This is an incredibly important discussion, and maybe I want to start by reminding the House how this discussion first came about.

And it came about through the experience of Kendal Carlberg, who we’ve talked about in this House. And for the benefit of all members, I’d like to read a quote from Ms. Carlberg, Mr. Speaker, in regards to her experience. And I’ll quote directly:

The thoughts in my head were terrifying. Our first child was born via C-section in Meadow Lake due to complications, so all I could think was our baby was going to die on the side of the highway.

It’s a terrible situation, Mr. Speaker. I think all members would agree. That’s a horrifying situation for any parent to be in, certainly any mother in labour. And that’s what this is about, Mr. Speaker. The member opposite said some things that I would challenge, Mr. Speaker, about not valuing rural women, which I think is deeply problematic and untrue.

And she talked a lot about choice and how people want to choose where they live. And I think that’s very true, Mr. Speaker. I think that’s one of the great assets in a province like Saskatchewan where we have such diversity, whether people want to live rurally, remotely, in the North, want to live right downtown five minutes from a hospital. But it’s about that choice, Mr. Speaker. It’s about the importance of choice for people to live where they want, with the lifestyle they want, with the health care that they deserve where they live.

For Kendal, I would assume for the women described by the member opposite — though I don’t presume to know — that would not have been their first choice for delivery, Mr. Speaker. There’s lots of folks who do want to choose a home birth. I was myself among them, Mr. Speaker, before having both babies by C-section, one emergent and one less emergency-related, Mr. Speaker.

But people should have choice, especially expectant mothers, and that’s what this is about, Mr. Speaker. It’s not about some hyperbole or saying that, you know, members hate women and the choices that they’re making in regards to health care. It’s about providing people in Saskatchewan with the choice to access the health care they deserve where they live.

And, Mr. Speaker, the motion’s very specific. It speaks to people giving birth or experiencing a life-threatening emergency. There is absolutely a space for different service delivery. Oh God, we could talk about expanding access to midwifery in this province, a great option for people who do live rurally, remotely, folks who choose that. It’s incredibly hard to get a midwife in this province as I’m sure many people know. It’s a lottery system based on your due date. It’s wonderful. I had a midwife my first go, Mr. Speaker, and I couldn’t get one my second. And they’re just amazing health care providers.

And when I think about that, Mr. Speaker, when I think about the choice and the variety of options that we could be offering to people in Saskatchewan when it comes to health care delivery, I think about things like midwifery. And I think about the fact that Saskatchewan, with all of our diversity, could be a leader in the delivery of rural and remote health care in this province, Mr. Speaker.

What a great opportunity for us to lead this province, not be last as we are in terms of access, in terms of wait times. We could be leaders in how we do this for people across this vast and beautiful country, many of whom live in the North, many of whom live rurally, many of whom live remotely. That would be a great plan, Mr. Speaker. But that is not the most ambitious plan that the government touts.

And that’s interesting language, Mr. Speaker. I don’t want to get into it too much, but I would submit that if access to rural and remote health care, if the plan for that service delivery was to deliver it virtually and that was something that members opposite were championing — not just when the Health minister says something in question period — but if that was the most ambitious health care plan that this government had run on in the last election, as they talk about often on the floor of this Assembly, they would have been brave and courageous and stood behind their health care plan to provide health care to rural and remote people in this province virtually.

But they did not. That was not part of the plan. The plan that people believe in, that people want, the choice that they want is to have access to a health care professional where and when they need it.

Many of us are parents in this Assembly, Mr. Speaker. I’m sure all of us could share stories about our families, how they came to be, how our families came into this world. No two stories are alike, Mr. Speaker, and all are miracles. And I’m not just thinking about myself and the options that I had. I did have access to a midwife. I do live a six-minute drive from a hospital, which I’m thankful to do and was very thankful for during pregnancy.

I think about the women that I’ve heard from, that the member from Regina Elphinstone-Centre spoke about, health care professionals, women experiencing situations like Ms. Carlberg found herself in after being turned away from her hospital — again not in a community of 200 like Mankota — but being turned away in Meadow Lake, a community we’re discussing here today, essential for providing health care services, by this government’s own comments, to folks living in the North. She was turned away from that hospital, Mr. Speaker.

But I think about those women across the province who’ve reached out — I’m sure members opposite have heard from them as well — and the nurses who have reached out and the health care workers who have reached out with so much fear having to send their patients driving from Swift Current to Moose Jaw when there was no anesthesiologist, or from Estevan north into this city because they couldn’t get the type of care that they needed. Those are the people that we’re talking about, Mr. Speaker. And it’s about choice and access to quality care.

We need to grow this province, Mr. Speaker. We should be doing everything we can to support people bringing beautiful babies into this province wherever they live, and ensure that they have safe and equitable access to health care during what can be some of the most beautiful but, unfortunately for many, some of the scariest moments of our lives, when we’re concerned not just for ourselves but for our children.

So with that, Mr. Speaker, I’d like to submit to members opposite that it is about choice. It’s about respect and allowing people who live throughout this province, whether they live five minutes from a hospital or whether they live a two-hour drive, to be certain that if they need that emergent medical care — again for the delivery of infants and life-threatening emergencies — that virtual care should not be the first option. It should be an option, certainly, Mr. Speaker; the member from Elphinstone spoke about that.

But if, if that were the first priority, if that were the option that this government believed was best, they would have been brave. They would have been courageous. That would have been in their election platform. They would have been out across this province talking about that to the communities that they represent. But they didn’t do that, Mr. Speaker, and I have to question why. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the Minister of Remote and Rural Health.

Hon. Lori Carr: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak in strong opposition to the motion brought forward by the members opposite calling for a reduction in health care service options for Saskatchewan residents. This motion disregards the progress we’ve made in modernization of our health care system and ignores the realities facing the people in rural and remote communities. Let me be clear: virtual care is not a substitute for in-person emergency care, but it is a vital support system when in-person care is not immediately available.

Since 2019 Saskatchewan has worked with our health care system partners to expand virtual services rapidly, responsibly, and with great success. Mr. Speaker, virtual care encompasses more than just virtual physician program. It includes programs and services such as HealthLine 811, the 988 suicide hotline, and the farmers’ stress line, Mr. Speaker. Virtual care options are also available through rapid access counselling for families and youth, for individuals with eating disorders, for individuals seeking counselling services for cognitive behavioural therapy, and addictions treatment. Physicians that offer virtual care options provide services both at home and through a local health centre. We also have MySaskHealthRecord, where you can access laboratory results, immunizations, patient records, and prescriptions, and doctors’ notes from various visits and procedures.

The virtual physician program connects local health care teams in rural emergency rooms with ER physicians elsewhere in the province. So contrary to what the member for Elphinstone-Centre says, it’s not like there’s just nobody at that health care facility, not a professional in that emergency room who is actually talking to that doctor, Mr. Speaker. So I would just like to correct the record there. This program is replacing care. It’s supporting local teams and sustaining emergency services, especially in communities where full physician coverage is still being recruited.

Once again, this is not a permanent solution. This is until we get those professionals in place that we need, Mr. Speaker.

In fact, Dr. Ivar Mendez, director of the virtual health hub, has shown that with the right technology, 70 per cent of remote patients can be treated within their own communities. He said:

We will be able to do your electrocardiogram, your chest X-ray, your cardiac enzymes and all the laboratory work that will allow the physician to understand if you actually have a heart attack or you can be managed in your own community [Mr. Speaker]. Although the savings are important, the crucial thing is that we . . . [are] able to provide timely care to these patients . . . that is what the importance of this is — saving lives and improving the outcomes.

So would we ban a tool that’s saving lives?

It’s pretty clear to me the members opposite, that they are not interested in all at these virtual option care options and instead would restrict options for different types of care. Even the NDP opposition knows better. In 2002 their own critic, the MLA from Saskatoon Fairview, acknowledged the benefits of virtual care. She pointed to the doctors and patients, both wanted these options to be continued long term.

Not only do the NDP in this province agree with investing in these long term, NDP BC [British Columbia] is investing in these virtual care options as well. BC is even using virtual monitoring to help seniors age in place safely in their homes. And in NDP Manitoba they just released a virtual app that helps connect patients to doctors. It’s pretty clear that the member from Elphinstone-Centre wouldn’t support that either.

Mr. Speaker, this motion is not only inconsistent, it’s irresponsible. The truth is virtual care improves access, supports front-line workers, reduces wait times, and ensures continuity of care right across our province, Mr. Speaker. Banning virtual doctors in life-threatening emergencies won’t protect patients. It will harm them. It will isolate rural communities. It will shutter emergency services. It will roll back innovation and delay care in moments when time matters.

[15:30]

Mr. Speaker, this is something the opposition is very familiar with as they were responsible for closing 52 hospitals in rural Saskatchewan. This government is committed to patient safety, rural access, the innovation in health care. We will not let ideology or outdated thinking stand in the way of progress.

Mr. Speaker, I urge all members of this Assembly to reject the misguided motion and stand up for safe, equitable, and modern health care for every Saskatchewan resident no matter where they live.

Mr. Speaker, I will be amending the motion as follows:

That all words following “That this Assembly” be replaced with:

Commends the Saskatchewan Health Authority and health care providers for continuously looking for new ways to expand health care services in all parts of Saskatchewan, including making virtual health services available to people in rural and northern areas of Saskatchewan.

I so move, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — The question before the Assembly is the proposed amendment by the Minister of Remote and Rural Health:

That all words following “That this Assembly” be replaced with:

I recognize the member from Batoche.

Darlene Rowden: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, many of us in this Chamber are fortunate to be mothers, thankfully. I also have the privilege of being a rural Saskatchewan mom. I am a farm woman who lives in rural Saskatchewan my entire life, Mr. Speaker. I have three grown children. My mother was a farm woman; she had three children. Both my grandmothers, hard-working farm women — one had eight, the other six.

My point, Mr. Speaker, is this: women have been delivering babies in rural Saskatchewan for generations, First Nations women much longer. I think about the late evening, March 28th, 1997. Holy moly, Mr. Speaker. Central Saskatchewan was getting a nasty start-of-spring snowstorm, and of course I went into labour quickly. Snowstorms will do that. Luckily my husband is a farm-driving extraordinaire, and he picked our way through snowdrifts on the grid roads and highway and got us to the hospital in Prince Albert. If we hadn’t made it and my husband wasn’t a cow-calf producer, imagine how great the 811 option on the side of the highway would have been in an emergency.

Speaking of Prince Albert, Mr. Speaker, I can’t help but recognize the investment this government is making there for the Victoria Hospital expansion. This hospital is and will provide expanded care for Prince Albert and surrounding area and the North as well, Mr. Speaker.

While the member opposite tries to instill fear into expectant mothers, our government works hard to provide more options to patients across the province and in rural Saskatchewan.

Speaker Goudy: — Sorry. Just to the member, you can’t accuse the opposition of intentions behind some of their words, so please apologize for that and move on.

Darlene Rowden: — I apologize, Mr. Speaker.

Our government works hard to provide more options to patients across the province and in rural Saskatchewan. Mr. Speaker, I am grateful that my daughters and son living in rural Saskatchewan have reliable and effective choices that today’s virtual options provide — yeah, in an emergency, or for additional medical consultation for rural Saskatchewan — while our government is recruiting medical professionals through our ambitious health human resources action plan. Right?

Our government has been investing in more care options for patients and families in rural Saskatchewan since having the privilege of forming government. Why would we ever want to restrict access to health care for rural Saskatchewan women? The NDP did that in the ’90s when they closed 52 hospitals.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Walsh Acres.

Jared Clarke: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s good to be on my feet to join in discussion on this important motion, and I’d like to kind of bring it back to the motion. And I’m going to read it:

The Assembly calls upon the government to ban the practice of using virtual doctors for patients giving birth to a child or experiencing a life-threatening emergency.

My colleague from Regina Elphinstone-Centre talked about the fact that there is certainly a place for virtual care in our province, that it is a good technology, and that we support innovative ideas in providing Saskatchewan people with the health care that they need in communities across this province.

But what we’re talking about here in this motion is life-threatening emergencies. We’re talking about patients who are giving birth. And so I want to . . . My colleague from Regina South Albert talked about a Saskatchewan woman, you know, went to her local hospital and was told, no, we’re not able to take you here; you’re going to have to go to Lloydminster, and so you’re going to have to drive. And the story goes that she had her baby on the side of the road, and thankfully there were no health complications.

But the reality in Saskatchewan right now is that in the last five years there have been 4,000 days in this province where health care has not been available for Saskatchewan people in their home community. And what my colleague also talked about was the fact that those temporary disruptions, as the government refers to them, are not posted anywhere except on the window of the door of the health centre.

So you’re going into labour and you’re having contractions and it’s time to go to the hospital. So you head to your local hospital and you see on the door, uh-oh, the hospital’s closed. Now what do you do? And it sure seems like the solution being presented here is that, oh, you should just get on your phone and click on the virtual link and pop up the webcam and you’re good to go now.

But that’s ridiculous, Mr. Speaker. We don’t know what kind of complications, we don’t know what is happening with that birth. Women need that health care now. So we’ve seen 500 days in the last five years where obstetrical departments are closed. So women go to their community and without any knowledge of whether that department is open or not, they show up and they go, “It’s closed.” Now what do they do? Virtual care is not the option here.

Yes, virtual care can work in the North if you have chronic illness and you need to check in with a doctor or refill a prescription or those kind of things. But when you’re having a baby and you go to your community hospital and it’s closed that day and you haven’t found . . . There’s no information online anymore. Because SHA used to post that. What do you do? That’s what we’re talking about here — in an emergency.

I served as Rural and Remote Health critic for our team for the year prior to the election here in the fall. So I got out into a number of communities and I heard from communities from across the province — down in Gravelbourg, Estevan, all over the place — that they have a health emergency. They’re rushed to their local community hospital, their health centre, and they find on the door of the hospital that it’s closed.

So is there going to now be instructions on the piece of paper notifying the residents of that community that their hospital is closed? Now there’s a little link on the bottom with a QR [quick response] code. Like just hit the virtual care and you’re good now, because they can deal with your heart attack over virtual care. I don’t think that makes sense. I don’t think that makes sense to a lot of Saskatchewan people.

What this, you know, idea by the government of virtual care to serve in emergencies or to serve in patients giving birth is an acknowledgement of the failures to the health care system that has happened under this Sask Party government over the last 18 years.

Currently — and I’ve talked about this before, Mr. Speaker — there’s 200,000 people in this province without a doctor. There’s 4,000 days of blackouts in health centres, in hospitals across the province over the last five years. There’s 500 days where obstetrical departments have been closed. This is not . . . How did we get here? How did we get here over the last 18 years?

They want to talk about what happened in the ’90s, when I was in elementary school. I would challenge them and say, how close to debt were we when the NDP took over, or how close to bankruptcy rather, were we in 1991 when the NDP took over government and found the books and the state of the books?

Saskatchewan people deserve health care when and where they need them. Virtual care for emergency, life-threatening situations — that’s not what people are asking for. They’re asking for their hospital to be open in their community. They’re asking to know that when they drive from the farm, when they’re having a baby, when they’re having a heart attack, when they’re having a stroke, when they’re having health care emergencies, that when they drive to their community hospital, it’s open. Or maybe they want to know, have some information in their community that tells them that, you know, hey, the hospital’s not open. You should head somewhere else.

So absolutely, we think that virtual care has a place in health care. But, Mr. Speaker, in these emergency situations when health facilities are not open because of temporary disruptions, and people have to drive hundreds of kilometres to get that care . . . I think of my family. The member opposite said she’s proud to be a mom. And I’m proud to be a dad, right. My daughters just celebrated their 13th birthday a couple weeks ago, and so it was 13 years ago when they were born. And they’re identical twins, Mr. Speaker, and so my wife had a high-risk pregnancy. And so we actually went in around the 36‑week mark. My wife had made it all the way almost to full gestation period for twins, and we went into the General Hospital mother baby unit, and they were going to induce her because there is a chance of increased mortality the longer you go with identical twins. And so they were going to induce her that day.

We were actually sent home, Mr. Speaker. They started the induction and then they actually paused it. They paused her induction because the NICU [neonatal intensive care unit] was full. And so they actually were debating as to whether they were going to send us to Calgary, to Edmonton, to Winnipeg, to Saskatoon because NICU was closed. And that was a real stressful time for us. So they actually sent us home. They sent us home for another couple days because the labour hadn’t actually started.

[15:45]

And so it was really hard on us. We were young parents. We had an obstetrician, and we were being well looked after. But there was a lot of waiting and a lot of not knowing about, will health care be there for us as a family when we needed it the most, right? And in that moment it wasn’t. For those few days it wasn’t. If my wife had gone into labour, we would have been airlifted into another community.

But so eventually a few days later we get the call, “Come in now; we have some space in the NICU.” And this was more of a precaution because they didn’t know whether my twins would need to go into NICU. But because they were identical there was increased chance of complications and all of that with the birth, so they were being proactive.

And so my wife goes through labour for quite a while. I’m doing my best to support her, almost fainted once, Mr. Speaker, when that epidural needle came out and I saw it going into her back. But I digress a little bit on that.

But when my wife was delivering, we had 11 health care professionals in the room. Eleven. Multiple doctors, JURSIs [Junior Undergrad Rotating Student Internship], interns, nurses. Multiple teams from the NICU — a team of three for each baby to rush the baby out. Eleven health care professionals.

So in my family’s situation, where my children are a high-risk pregnancy, there were literally 11 health care professionals in the room. So is the alternative in this situation that’s being proposed or talked about here, is that like, a webcam would have sufficed for those 11 health care professionals in my family’s situation? I don’t think so.

Virtual care could have perhaps, you know, brought in another doctor who specialized in twins or something to support the multiple health care professionals that were in the room. Absolutely I could see and support that. But the notion that, like as my wife and I are on the way to the hospital and she’s in labour and she’s going to deliver these babies now, that I can pop open my phone and like guide us through something, seems a bit ridiculous.

I think what really needs to be done here, Mr. Speaker, is ensure that health care is there for Saskatchewan people when they need it, so that when they go to their health care centre, you know, it’s open. They don’t roll up to the parking lot, look at the door on the health care centre and go, oh, snap. I don’t want to say anything worse than that. I’m sure a family, you know, in labour might not be as tame.

But what do you do then? Like that is such a stressful idea to me, that you roll up in your community and you find on a piece of paper that you’re not getting care here today. And so to me, what we need to do is ensure that there are no temporary disruptions to health care centres across the province. We need to make sure that obstetrical departments are open and women and families can know that when they’re having a baby, they can go to those health care facilities and get the care that their family needs. That’s what we want to see. And the idea that virtual care can just somehow replace doctors or nurses is a bit ridiculous to me.

One of the things that I’d really like to see, while I’m talking . . . To me, you know, we have these . . . I’ve talked about the lack of doctors, how many folks in Saskatchewan don’t have access to a doctor. We’re seeing these temporary disruptions. You know, this is not a health care system that’s firing on all cylinders. This is a health care system in crisis. And we hear that from health care workers all the time.

I mean I spoke . . . I was at a CUPE [Canadian Union of Public Employees] rally here during the last week. These are front-line health care workers — nurses, porters, lab techs, all sorts of different health care professionals — and they’re without a contract, Mr. Speaker. They haven’t gotten a raise in three years as the cost-of-living crisis continues, costs keep increasing. You know, we heard from health care workers themselves that they’re going to the food bank to feed their family even though they have a full-time job, even though they’re working a second job. They’re going to the food bank because they’re not making enough money to pay their bills and feed their family.

And so we talk about like the loss of nurses and health care professionals out of Saskatchewan. I mean that’s linked. Why do you think we have all these disruptions? Why do you think there’s 4,000 days where we don’t have, you know, access to health care across the province? It’s because this government has failed to keep and retain our health care workers, and it’s a shame.

You know, we’ve been calling . . . I remember as Rural and Remote Health critic, we called for a nursing task force. We’ve been calling for that for a number of years — two years, I think. And right before the election the government said, yeah, hey, we’re going to do that, right. Great. I think health care workers, front-line health care workers should be at the table helping to give ideas, give solutions, help this government fix health care.

But it’s been very slow. I think folks met last week about the nursing task force with the government to start down that process. But I mean, I think the election was five months ago, right. So you know, why has it taken five months? Good question. It’s a great question.

One of the things that we’ve also seen from this government is . . . You know, in terms of like fixing health care, I want to focus on what are the alternative solutions to relying on virtual care, relying on a webcam to help women or families in an emergency. And I want to talk about how can we fix the health care system. The Health minister talked yesterday about the NDP never has any ideas. We provide and propose a lot of ideas I think, Mr. Speaker. One is the nursing task force.

But one of their solutions is, you know, urgent care centre, breast cancer centre. We’ve heard in both of these centres . . . I know they’re very proud of those. But let’s talk about the urgent care centre in Regina. This is championed as the solution to fixing health care and the backlog we see in the emergency rooms and all that in the city. But when they went to fill those positions in urgent care, all they did was get the existing emergency doctors from the Pasqua and the General Hospital to now work shifts in the urgent care centre. So these doctors, who are already overworked, are now covering three locations instead of just two.

And so this is kind of a theme that we see with the government in terms of, like they build these pretty buildings and they really rally behind them, but then we don’t actually see an increase in the number of health care professionals that are actually working in there. And we know that we do not have enough emergency room doctors here in Regina. We know that we do not have enough emergency room doctors in Saskatoon. We know that we don’t have enough emergency room doctors in a number of other communities across this province where these emergency rooms, emergency departments, are operating. We know that. And so why is the government, you know, opening more urgent care centres when we don’t have enough doctors to man the facilities that are currently existing?

And I think that’s again relating back to these 4,000 days of disruptions in rural Saskatchewan. They talk about the most ambitious health care plan, or I can’t remember what it is. It’s ambitious, and they like to really talk about it a lot, Mr. Speaker.

But when you talk to front-line health care workers, they’re shaking their heads. They’re wondering, you know, why is the government relying on contract nurses and paying contract nurses double or triple what a regular Saskatchewan nurse makes? Kind of feels like we’re, you know . . . The creep of virtual care that we’re seeing or is being proposed here is similar to the creep of contract nurses. You know, we saw an increasing reliance and increasing reliance and increasing reliance because they couldn’t get enough nurses, and so we rely on these contract nurses.

And so now, you know, I’m worried that virtual care is going to be the same thing, Mr. Speaker. That’s because we have these temporary disruptions that are in communities across the province. I’ve got a list here: I mean Herbert, the Northwest Health Facility, Lanigan, St. Peter’s, Broadview, Outlook, Kamsack, Lloydminster, Battlefords, Leader, Wynyard. Like this is across the province. Let’s not let virtual care somehow be the band-aid solution to actually fixing health care.

We used to be leaders in health care, Mr. Speaker. We’re proud of that history in Saskatchewan. As New Democrats, we’re proud to have brought public health care to Saskatchewan and to Canada. That’s a legacy that we’re very proud of and we want to see health care be there for Saskatchewan people when and where they need it.

You know, I think about babies in this discussion. And I think, what is the safest for babies? What is the safest for women? It’s the year 2025. What is the safest option for women to be delivering babies, for their babies’ health and for their health? I don’t think a webcam on the side of the road is that solution. We want to make sure that health care is there for people where and when they need it. And that’s talking to health care workers. That’s ensuring that we have enough people in health facilities across the province.

I’m proud to be a dad, Mr. Speaker. I’m proud to be a Saskatchewan New Democrat. I’m proud to stand here and advocate for health care because as the MLA for Regina Walsh Acres, I hear a lot. And that’s one of the most common issues that I hear to my office is concerns around health care. And I think of a young mom, a young mom who emailed me right before the election started in October, saying she doesn’t know what she’s going to do. She can’t find a doctor. She has a child, a small child, three or four years old, has medical conditions, and she can’t find a doctor. She got a doctor and then she lost a doctor. She got a doctor then the doctor moved.

These are the people that we’re fighting for. These are the people that we want to know that when they have an emergency, that they go to their health care centre and that they get the care that they need. A webcam in a life-threatening emergency, a webcam at the side of the road is not health care that Saskatchewan women or Saskatchewan people deserve. With that, Mr. Speaker, thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Saskatoon Nutana.

Erika Ritchie: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I want to thank the member from Regina Walsh Acres for those thoughtful comments that he just put on the record, and to all of my caucus mates on this side of the floor for entering into this debate on a topic that, you know, I think has a lot of context and buildup to the place that we find ourselves here today talking about emergency rooms and virtual care and how that affects patient care; how that affects the people presenting in our emergency rooms, particularly in cases where we have young moms that are so happy to be introducing a new member of their family into the world, you know, what should be a very joyous occasion for their family.

[16:00]

And I can’t imagine the anxiety it must provoke for families of today to have to wonder and question, is the care that I need going to be there when I need it, when my family needs it? And you know, many of the members in our opposition caucus have young families. They’re interested in growing their families. Some have recently had babies. Some are expecting right this moment. And you know, we want to make sure that we see that there is a strong and stable health care system here for their families at such a pivotal, important time of their families’ lives.

And you know, like the member for Regina Walsh Acres was sharing with us, he and his wife had a high-risk pregnancy that meant that they needed expert care. And so often families can find themselves in that situation. Sometimes you might know about it ahead of time and sometimes it can come on unexpectedly.

And I know, Mr. Speaker, you have a very large family. You’ve got lots of children. I think maybe five, if I’m counting right? Oh, six. Wow. You got me beat. You got me beat. I have four children. So you know, no two birth stories are the same. You must agree with me on that point. They’re all unique. They can have their own set of unique circumstances. And so I thought I would, you know, share a little bit about my experience.

I don’t talk a lot about my kids here in the Assembly. They’re grown up. They’re leading their own lives. I probably should have asked them for permission before I got up on my feet here. There wasn’t time. I’ll try to keep it, you know, just to the facts. But I do want to share them because I think they’re pertinent to this legislation.

You know, I often think about the fact that I am so lucky that we live within like a five-minute drive of the Royal University Hospital and what a privilege that is, knowing that there’s such good obstetric care, gynecological care, literally a five-minute drive from my home where I live in Saskatoon. And you know, there’s so many families here in Saskatchewan who, you know, don’t have that same luxury of being close to one of our major hospitals here in the province serving the people of Saskatchewan, you know, one and a quarter million people.

But as it is the case, that has been my situation. I’ve had that access, and I’m eternally grateful for it. And honestly I’m shocked, just absolutely shocked at the state of our health care now and where it’s come from since I was, you know, having our young family 20, 30 years ago.

And you know, my youngest, I like to call her my baby. She’s actually 25, but it’s fun to call her my baby. Sometimes I call her Sister Bear. She calls me Mama Bear. Yeah, last time I was up on my feet on a long debate like this she ended up calling me, you may recall, Mr. Speaker. I had to scramble with my phone and try to turn it off. I made sure I had the do not disturb on before I got on my feet, Mr. Speaker.

But I don’t know, I guess maybe I’m going to start in reverse and sort of share that story where, you know, she was a precipitous birth. I don’t know if you know what that is, but it’s one that comes on very quickly. And as I understand it now, maybe you do know this, but by the time you get to your fourth birth, things are working really well and things can happen pretty fast, which they did. So yeah, it was comical. I will grant you that. It’s a funny story. It’s a very funny story, you know.

So you know, we’re happy, expectant parents and we started to have the contractions and we’re like, okay, well we’ll just keep timing these, see how it goes. Of course, you know, it’s kind of in the middle of the night. Don’t actually recall; I’ve got a lot of brain fog from that time. There was lots going on. But as I recall it, it’s just like, okay, this isn’t our first rodeo, baby number four. We’ll start timing these contractions and we’ll just see where it gets to and eventually we’ll go to the hospital.

And so we make it through the night, and my eldest goes off to school. Again we lived really close to the school, you know, just sent her out the door. She was all of about seven, and she would walk herself to school. And you know, we started pulling in resources and stuff. And by the end of the day . . . Oh no, actually it was actually a stat holiday. So no, she didn’t go to school. The kids are all home, and so then of course there’s play dates.

And so my daughter, my eldest had a play date arranged. And so I didn’t want to get in the way of that, and so her little friend, Molly came over. And I didn’t even tell Molly’s mom when she came over that I was actually in labour or, you know, I was having contractions.

And so the friends come over. They’re having their play dates. We get through the day, play with the kids. And then I think it was kind of about mid-afternoon. Molly’s mom showed up to pick her up. And I think at that time I spilled the beans, let her know that, yeah, actually I was in labour and would need to go to the hospital soon. And so you know, that’s what you do for your kids. You want to make sure that they have those important experiences.

But anyway, so I guess I’m going on a little bit here, but the contractions started to get a little close. And we were like, okay, well maybe it’s time to go to the hospital, right? So my mom comes over, she stays with the kids. And my husband and I get in the car. As I say, it’s only a five-minute drive, right?

So we get to the hospital and we go through admissions. And the contractions stop and so they get us through and they get us up to a room. And we think, okay, well we’re in it for the long haul. We better just kind of settle in, and well let’s go for a walk down the hallway. Yeah, let’s do that. There’s a nice little room down at the end of the hall. We’ll go over there.

And so we get to this lovely room. And this is before they built the children’s hospital. I’ll maybe just mention that. And so we’re in the old part of RUH [Royal University Hospital], and so there’s all these lovely wings that extend out. And at the end of one these wings there was this beautiful room with all these windows, all these big windows, and these leather couches. So we go in the room, and we’re just kind of looking around and admiring the view. There’s a courtyard down below, and it’s a beautiful day.

And then all of a sudden, without any warning, I start to experience a full on contraction, and the baby’s coming. So here we are. We’re in the room. We don’t have any care around us, and so my husband goes rushing down the hallway to go find somebody. And we had a birthing doula with us, and she was helping me. And anyways, I mean the baby was born within a matter of minutes in this room where there are all these windows, where everybody could kind of look in and see this baby being born on a leather couch.

And so you know, she came out screaming, of course, and very healthy. And they caught the baby and whisked us back to the delivery room. And everything turned out fine in the end, I’m very happy to say, and we have a feisty, smart, adventurous, beautiful daughter who’s just taken the world by storm. And I think that that birth pretty much told us everything that we knew to expect from this feisty young gal who has an incredibly big heart, and she experiences life to the fullest extent.

And I’m just so grateful that the hospital and the staff were all there in what were sort of very exceptional circumstances, at least for us. I mean, I suppose maybe back in the day when moms used to have 12 births, it was kind of a different story.

On the flip side, my eldest, she was born by a Caesarean. And I mean, that’s a whole other experience, obviously, where we found out that she was breech near the end of the pregnancy term. And we still had hoped to sort of have a natural birth, but I think she was 10 days overdue. So pretty big baby when she was born, and in that case I had to . . .

It’s funny. You know, I’ll just stop for a second and say, like these stories are so vivid. You know, my eldest is 32 and it’s almost like it was yesterday. You know, you just go over the memories, and they just feel like it’s just yesterday.

And so in that case, I didn’t want to get an epidural but I did get an epidural. And then that turned out to be a really good thing because then when they decided, okay you’re going for the Caesarean, like everything happens so quickly, as you may know. Like when things get down to a really emergency situation, they’re like ripping you into the emergency room and things are, you know . . .

And because I had the epidural though, they didn’t have to put me under a general anesthetic. They were able to give me the medications directly through the epidural, and I was able to sort of see everything that was happening, although there’s this big curtain in front of you. My husband saw everything. I think it was a little bit TMI [too much information] for him to watch all that happen, you know, watching his beloved go under the knife and watch.

The funny thing there was that when they were delivering the baby, the first thing that came out was her little leg, and her little leg was just kind of kicking around. And I think they have to sort of equilibrate the pressure. They can’t just have the baby just pop out right away because it’s, you know, when it’s by Caesarean there’s all these risks at play.

And I’ll never forget that little leg, that little leg sticking out. Again it was a little bit of a foretell of the future and her wildly successful career as a track and field athlete. She competed for the University of Saskatchewan and the local track teams in Saskatoon, with the Saskatoon Track & Field Club and Riversdale. I just ran into one of her coaches the other day. You know, a little blast from the past because she’s been out of track now for not quite a decade. But she does work for the Health Authority as a physiotherapist and does really good work for them.

Anyways, you know, so I guess my point though, in this case, she was born by emergency Caesarean section. I don’t think that is something that we could have expected to happen in a virtual care setting.

And I’m so grateful for the staff at RUH, and you know, everything that they did to ensure that we had a safe and healthy birth. And yeah, as our first, she was just the apple of our eye, and you know, just off the scale on all the metrics just in terms of weight and length. And you know, all the things around when they first can grab stuff and see things and all those things. I forget what those are called. The Asperger’s? No, that’s not it. I know there’s a scale. It’s been too long. I don’t remember what it’s called.

An Hon. Member: — Apgar.

Erika Ritchie: — Apgar. Apgar scores. Yeah, you remember those, I hope. Probably, maybe not.

Anyways, so yeah, she was quite a baby, just happy and just so alive and curious and bubbly and smiley. She had these big chipmunk cheeks. Oh my God, when she would smile, it was so hilarious. Like these cheeks just went on forever. It was like she had, you know, nuts stored away in there. And she’ll die of embarrassment maybe if she ever finds out that I was telling this story here. She’s at work right now though, so she has no idea.

[16:15]

But you know, I think about that often. It’s just like, wow, I could have died in childbirth when I was 24. And I wouldn’t be here, and my kids wouldn’t be here, right? You know, like it was literally life and death without access to emergency room care in that very moment. And you know, that was the case 100 years ago or more when people didn’t have access to that kind of medical care.

And I mean, initially I was really hoping that we could have had a home birth with a midwife. And at that time, we didn’t have midwifery legislation here in the province. We didn’t have funding for it. We didn’t have schools, right?

But I was able to find this amazing woman, Eileen Mackenzie, and she trained as a midwife in the United Kingdom. And she came over with her husband in the ’60s during the medicare crisis. And so her husband was a physician; she was a midwife. And she passed away a few years ago. But I met her at the time of our first daughter, and she did provide us with some midwifery care while I was still actually going to our family physician.

And it just really always disappointed me that we didn’t have that kind of midwifery care here in the province at that time. I mean, since then we have had new legislation that’s come in, but the role of the midwives, like the role of nurse practitioners, has been limited. We don’t have a school here in the province. And I think when we talk about, you know, innovations and ways that we can improve access to health care here in the province, that midwifery is an opportunity for them to be part of the health care team in some of those low-risk case.

Obviously not something that is suitable in all cases, but with properly trained midwives and nurse practitioners in a whole sort of holistic care system, they definitely have a role. And at a time when we are facing such shortages, you know, it seems to me that we should have all the options on the table and ways that we can sort of bring these things to the fore without having to resort to these virtual care options that are so limited in their scope. And I just hope by sharing some of my own personal experience in terms of access to care during pregnancy and delivery that, you know, we can look at some of those options.

Because I think that virtual care in the way that it’s being presented by the Minister of Health here, to me is frankly an admission of failure. Things have gotten so bad it’s just like, you know, they’re grasping at straws in terms of how we cope in this crisis. And I have to say that during the last election period in the fall I can’t tell you how many times health care access came up on the doorstep in my community of Saskatoon Nutana.

But not just there. It was in communities right across the province, you know. I had the opportunity to be in Swift Current and Yorkton, and up to Meadow Lake, and see and hear the frustrations that communities are experiencing in terms of their access to care. And even, you know, with the leadership from the Meadow Lake Tribal Council and their concerns right now in terms of access to care, long-term care. At a time when also in our rural areas, we know that our road systems are not always safe to drive on. And especially in the North, but not exclusively.

And online systems. The stability of the internet in remote communities is something that is subject to, you know, not being available when we need it. And I can’t imagine, like, you’re in an emergency situation, you’ve got a doctor on the other end of a webcam, and all of a sudden the internet goes down. Well then what do you do?

It’s precarious. It’s a risk that is untenable. It just really is. You know, from my experience of accessing the health care system through delivery of my kids and then seeing the challenges that our rural and remote communities are facing, I just have such empathy and concern for the approach that’s being taken here. And it seems to me like it’s a culmination of the failures of this government over the last 18 years in terms of being able to provide adequate access and health care in the province.

We saw through the pandemic the heroic efforts our health care workers made to ensure coverage through that critical time. There was a lot of controversies over how to protect public health and avoid putting a strain on the health care system. And we were highly critical at that time, of course, of the measures taken by this government and the lack of transparency around what was actually happening. But the end result was burnout. Health care workers were burnt-out dealing with the pandemic crisis, and many of them left the profession as a result.

You know, even my daughter right now who works in health care is on a . . . I don’t know what to call it. I don’t know if it’s a . . . She took a temporary work assignment outside of the hospital just because it was just, you know, she needed a break. She’s early in her career. Obviously she didn’t want to leave her job but needed to go somewhere where it wasn’t so chaotic and stressful all the time too.

And I know from my own experience of visiting emergency rooms and seeing the state of those emergency rooms, the long wait times and the acute nature of the care that people are needing that are presenting in the hospitals. And it’s hard on the patients and it’s hard on the health care workers ultimately at the end of the day.

And so the issues around retention and recruitment are all an outcome of a system that’s been overburdened, that has been in crisis, and it’s made it . . . You know, the minister likes to talk about their health care strategy, but I mean, I go back to this point all the time: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And that’s why we needed to preserve our health care system, so we wouldn’t find ourselves in the situation we are today where we’re debating a motion around the utility of virtual care in the place of doctors in emergency rooms.

It was predictable. It’s the natural extension and outcome of policy failures that go back many years, and in particular to that time during the pandemic when we redlined our health care system. And for me that’s just another part of what I find so tragic. It was avoidable. And you know, our shadow minister for Health, the member from Saskatoon Fairview, I’ve got so much mad respect for her and the work that she has done to bring these issues to the fore and call for good policy action to prevent us getting into the situation that we’re in and to ensure that we preserve the state of health care.

And sadly, sadly, those calls went unheeded. And you know, there’s a program on Crave. I don’t know; someone just recently pointed it out to me. I think it’s called The Pitt. And I don’t know if anyone’s watched The Pitt. Not getting a lot of reactions. The Pitt, has anybody watched The Pitt? Okay, so some of the members on this side have. And it’s like, it’s so eerily familiar, you know, in terms of . . . The Pitt is about an emergency room. Sorry, I should have explained that, Mr. Speaker. And you know, it just highlights the challenges emergency rooms are facing, some of the chronic issues, the chronic understaffing, not enough rooms, all these various things.

And while it may be true that, you know, the challenges we’re facing here in Saskatchewan are similar to challenges that are being seen in other health care systems across the continent, I guess what is really grievous here is that, you know, in the birthplace of medicare, where we put such a high value and priority on ensuring that the citizens of our province have access to good quality health care when and where they need it, that the system has failed them. It’s failed the workers and we’re not seeing good outcomes as a result for anybody.

And it becomes a vicious cycle, right? I mean, if you have a system in crisis, how do you attract and retain workers? You know, everyone’s running in the opposite direction. Who wants to work in that kind of environment? And I just have spoken to so many former health care workers who just . . . You know, maybe they weren’t ready to retire or they were approaching retirement, but after that experience, it was like, that’s it; I’m done; I’m out of here. And it exacerbated the situation.

So I think that what I’ve tried to do here in my time here speaking to this motion is to try to put a little bit of a face to the issue and talk about it, you know, from some personal experience, talk about it from the perspective of those in the community that I have interacted with in my constituency and beyond.

And I just really think that it’s a very sad state of affairs that we’ve found ourselves in where we’re debating such a bill, that it would even be necessary to be looking at these kinds of measures, these radical measures at a time when it didn’t have to be this way. We could’ve charted a different course.

And you know, the Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities was very strongly advocating a Grow Your Own strategy. That’s something that we really strongly supported. You know, I’m hopeful that that initiative will bear some fruit in time. And that was something certainly we heard from rural municipalities, towns, and villages, and RMs as well.

Well I think there will be other members that also have more to say. So with that, I’ll conclude my remarks.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Regina Rochdale.

[16:30]

Joan Pratchler: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to talk about this motion from the point of view of a nurse.

I come from a long line of nursing. My mom was one of the first nurse practitioners in this province. She lobbied that government at that time to open that kind of practice here. Most of her work was in the North. She worked at Beauval. She worked at Sandy Bay. She worked at Tuktoyaktuk. She would fly around and she’d be out for four weeks. And then she’d come back to us and be with us for a couple of weeks and fly back out again.

But I’m going to talk to you a little bit about how this Telehealth can work. I can tell you it absolutely will not work in an emergency situation. Because whenever there’s a Telehealth program or there is virtual health, there’s always a nurse there first, simply because there’s no doctor there so you have the nurse.

And so one of the jobs that nurses have to do is assess, diagnose, and they have to plan whatever that care plan would look like, implement it, and then evaluate. That’s part of the ADPIE [assessment, diagnosis, planning, implementation, and evaluation] process. That’s what nurses do when a client comes in right away.

And everyone in this province deserves health care when they need it and where they need it, with people that are practising within their scope of practice. So when a client comes to me, I do an assessment of whatever their emergent concern is at that time. But as soon as that concern goes beyond my scope of practice, I need to consult with a doctor or refer them in another way. So if a mom is coming in and she might be imminently in labour, that is not part of my scope of practice. I need to consult with a doctor. I move that client on so someone that is in that scope can practise that.

To think that that would work for an emergency situation is wrong. Can I provide emergency first aid? Absolutely. But I am not in my scope of practice to deliver a baby unless it’s in an emergency. It’s not within my scope of practice to set a bone unless it’s an emergency, and get it ready for going on to the next care provider. So does virtual health care have a place? Absolutely. But not in emergency.

And so I’d like to talk a little bit more about that. If someone comes and presents to me, as a nurse, that they’ve got an issue, well, I will assess what it is. And there is a variety of assessments that we can use. First off, the very first thing I would do is do their vital signs. Everybody knows that’s a blood pressure. We do a blood pressure. We do the pulse. We do the oxygen saturations. We do the respirations. If any of those are out of whack, we go quicker into the next step of what we need to do.

In fact, if three of those vital signs are out of whack, we are on the verge of sepsis. You don’t horse around with sepsis. You have 24 hours maybe. Maybe you have 24 hours in order to get the right antibiotic into that person. And what sepsis is, is the inside of your veins and your vessels, when that inside starts going wonky and gets damaged, it will never be repaired again, so you have to get the right antibiotics at the right time.

It means you’re going to need to do a lab assessment right away. And they will have to determine what is that pathogen in that blood sample and then be able to provide the right kind of antibiotics. Those have to be stored at the right place, right time, right dates. Everything has to be ready to go and done under a physician’s . . . [inaudible] . . . and observation. That is not in my scope of practice. That would never happen. But that’s entirely something that would happen in the North, where someone would come to visit in the hospital or the care centre.

If someone comes in to me and says, “Gee, you know, something’s not right; they’re kind of off balance,” that’s when we do the little flick in the eyes. We do the level-of-consciousness tests. We do all those kinds of things. If anything there is somewhat off balance, we move that on to the physician because now we have probably a brain injury of some nature or a stroke imminent.

Those things you can’t deal with at Telehealth, and you can’t deal with that with a virtual doctor. A virtual doctor — the best they could do is make sure the emergency ward is ready as I evacuate that patient out of that place to get them to the doctor on time. So there is a place for virtual care — not in an emergency.

If someone comes in to me and says, “I’ve got this rash. I don’t know what’s going on,” and I find out that rash is going here, here, here, all over the place, and it’s an angry red, I go, “Just a minute, what did you last eat? What has happened? What have you last touched?”

If I have an EpiPen situation, I know that I can give them three shots of an EpiPen and then they’re out. That means that airvac or that ambulance or STARS [Shock Trauma Air Rescue Service] has to be there ready to take them out. Telehealth doctor won’t be able to do much more than that, other than I go along with the EpiPen and epinephrine and give them the shots that they need in order that they’ll hopefully still be alive and be able to breathe once they get to the next centre.

So virtual doctor wouldn’t help there. Best thing they could do is make sure that the emergency room is ready as soon as that client arrives.

If someone comes to me and says, you know what, I just feel dizzy. You know, my jaw’s kind of hurting or my arm is funny or the back of my head hurts. The first thing I would do is a cardiac assessment right away. And I could do that assessment, but before I’d do that assessment I’d be calling 911 and the evac right away. So Telehealth and virtual health would not help there. I have to evacuate them out.

So there’s only so much a nurse can do. When I’m practising to my full scope I can do those things, but there’s some things that are beyond my scope and beyond a webcam. That’s just not going to happen.

If someone comes in to me and says, you know, I just . . . every time I breathe I can’t get my breath, can’t get my breath. I’m going to take my stethoscope and listen for all the different kind of sounds. And there’s about 10 different sounds we listen for. Some are emergent, some aren’t. But when I get one of those emergent ones, and I couple that with one of the other vital signs that are out of whack, that’s a doctor right there. So virtual health care is good for me to do that assessment, but is not a place for an emergency.

Let’s say someone comes in and their eyes aren’t quite right. One of the pupils is larger than the other. Well I would check right away — what did they eat? what did they ingest? what did they inject? — because those are signs of opioid or any other drug ingestion or having some kind of drugs in the system that aren’t working well. Those are ones I can’t deal with. I’d have to call a lab report, see what med would be in their veins, what would be the next step. I wouldn’t be addressing that. I would be calling 911, get medevac out there. So virtual health care is good for some things, but it wouldn’t be good for a neurological emergency.

If someone says, you know what, “I’ve been sick; I’ve been having diarrhea and throwing up for the last three days,” well that is not food poisoning. That is something far, far different. And if they have had that for that long, that’s nothing Telehealth could deal with. I would have to evacuate them out, move that on to a doctor. That’s beyond my scope of practice.

So good to have nurses in these situations, because some of those things we can deal with. But in an emergency situation? No. I would lose my licence if I did things like that. I can give emergency care, life-saving care the best I could, but it needs to go to the air ambulance or to another ambulance to do that.

If someone came in and said that, “you know what, the birds are telling me to do things,” first thing I would do is a mental health assessment. And part of that assessment would be to see what insight they had and how they’re talking and how they’re interacting with me. I would ask them about their sleep patterns because any time somebody’s got their sleep patterns out of whack — they’re sleeping during the day and they’re awake all the night — that is one of the number one signs of mental health issues.

And then I would ask them . . . I would look at them and see what they’re wearing. So every time a nurse comes in a room . . . When I come into here, you know, how do you not assess people where they’re at? You’re looking at all kinds of things.

And we would check to see their speech pattern. Is their speech making sense? Do they have word salad? All those kind of things would be indicative of some kind of mental health issue. And so though I could probably coax them through and de-escalate them to a place where it would be all right, that is something that Telehealth or virtual health might be able to deal with, but I can tell you what the doctor would say right away: send him over here for a psychiatric assessment.

So while virtual health care may have its merits in part of the assessment, it certainly doesn’t have very much in part of the treatment unless you have a practitioner there that can operate within that scope of practice.

One of the other big things that nurses can do that Telehealth or virtual health might be able to help with is patient education. And it can also help with helping them prevent the next occurrence of what’s happening.

So when it comes to virtual doctors, it would be more or less a checking in with a specialist would be the best use of that. Checking in with a general practitioner, if it is beyond the scope of practice for a nurse to do that, and then under doctor’s orders I would be able to give whatever treatment that they chose that they needed for that client. Those would be the key things where I would think that virtual health care or virtual doctors would be helpful in.

So I’m a pretty fresh nurse. A fresh nurse of about five years. So I had the latest training at Sask Polytech, and one of the things we were trained on was virtual care, Telehealth care, with Dr. Mendez. And so there are certainly things that it can be used for in a good way, but you have to have the practitioner there at that time to be able to implement what that doctor says.

But also you need to have the nurse or another health care provider, nurse practitioner, there to do that total assessment. Because a doctor will not make a call on what the situation is unless they have all the data on the assessment, the vital signs, all those assessments that I just mentioned and all the details that would have to go through that in order for them to be able to make the right diagnosis for me to implement the best I could — until it turned into an emergency.

And that’s why we have highly trained nurses. That’s why you have highly trained nurse practitioners to be able to catch that moment when if I wait five more minutes, that life is going that way instead of that way. So though virtual health may have its place, it is absolutely not in the place for an emergency situation. Certainly not with child-bearing, and certainly not with children because you have to act much quicker with children. Medicines go quicker into children. They go quicker through their system and once a child is in that kind of danger zone, you don’t horse around with that. You get that to the doctor immediately.

Child care’s the same thing. We had to practise delivering babies, yes, but anything can happen at any time. And when there’s two lives, any lives, at stake, you have to make sure that the right person’s doing the right job at the right time. And it is the job of the health care practitioner to decide when that is.

And so though I’m not saying Telehealth is not okay, it is good for some things, but it certainly isn’t good for emergency situations. Thank you.

Speaker Goudy: — I recognize the member from Athabasca.

Leroy Laliberte: — Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Speaking of this motion that was brought forward, Mr. Speaker, in every way that I think about it, I just don’t know how this works. Where I’m from, it’s really difficult for people to get the care that they need already, and it’s been like that for many years, Mr. Speaker.

I know there’s been some comments made where, you know, I don’t live in the North, you know, I live in Meadow Lake. But I grew up in the North and I have family in the North. I have friends that are still there. I’d had my grandmas and my grandpas and different people that are up there. And I’ve seen first-hand that they don’t have the service that they need.

I don’t know how this works. I don’t know how virtual doctors is going to work up there. For those that travelled up into northern Saskatchewan you’ll see first-hand that we don’t even have cell service. Like, how is that going to work? I know a lot of you have friends there, Mr. Speaker, up there that you care about. And you know, we had these conversations many times in here. What happens if that individual that you care about ends up — like my colleague was talking about, as a nurse — had to go in and see a doctor or go into the clinic, and the clinic is shut down?

This is why I’ve been bringing this up so many times in the Assembly. We don’t know when we’re going to have an emergency. You’re starting to feel like, you know, like you don’t know if you’re having a stroke. Kids hurt themselves every day. They bang their heads. They fall off of something, cut their head open, and then they have to travel two hours to go and see a doctor while they’re bleeding the way that they are. That makes no sense to me. And then you’re going to call this virtual, go on this virtual line and wait for a doctor to log on and say, I think you better get to a hospital in Saskatoon. So it can take you 15 hours to get there, but you’ll get there. I don’t know if you’re going to make it though.

Like this is serious, this is serious, you guys. Mr. Speaker, it’s serious. How does this work? We’ve been neglecting these services for so long in the North, for so long. It makes no sense to me. If somebody ended up going into the La Loche hospital, like we said — and we’ve debated on this — was closed down for a day and that’s the hospital that they rely on from Garson Lake, from Bear Creek, from Turnor Lake. They travel there and they notice that their emergency is shut down. They don’t have cell service. How are they going to contact anybody?

[16:45]

So I just don’t know how this works. We need doctors in the North. We need nurses in the North. There’s nurses that are willing to come up at some point but they have nowhere to stay because we have a housing issue, Mr. Speaker. We can’t accommodate them to be up there.

This is real life. I don’t know how we got here, Mr. Speaker. It makes no sense to me. There’s kids that are in need of these services every day. They contact either the federal government or the province many times to receive services so they could be at home and not have to go live in Saskatoon or Edmonton or wherever they need to be able to get this service. This should be available to people when they need it and where they need it.

We’ve had the Meadow Lake Tribal Council here today. They represent nine Nations — Clearwater Lake, Ministikwan Lake, Makwa Sahgaiehcan, Waterhen. They have Canoe Narrows, English River, Buffalo River. There’s 18,000 people that they represent, and they can’t get the services that they need in those communities. If we can’t even get cell service up there and very lucky to get Wi-Fi in those areas, how is this going to work? It makes no sense. So like it’s something that we seriously need to talk about.

This is not going to work for families up there, people that you and I care for, Mr. Speaker, because we know a lot of people up in that area throughout the Northwest, throughout the North — good people, hard-working people. Hard-working people work, live their whole lives in the North, and then they have to go get a service in the South. And sometimes the next time that we bring them home is when it’s time to bury them, because they don’t have that service when they need it.

We spoke about these long-term care facilities. We talked about all of these different things, Mr. Speaker.

And so these virtual beds, I don’t know how . . . or virtual doctors, having them online. I don’t know how that’s going to work for us up there, because even if the doctor said that this is an emergency, we need to get you to a hospital right now, the closest hospital for some people is 15 hours away.

And you know, we don’t have . . . we can’t get the helicopter up there because we can’t gas them up. We can’t fuel them up, up there. We have to wait for a plane to travel in from Saskatoon to pick up our patients and then bring them back to Saskatoon. That’s a few hours in itself. We have ambulances that need to be able to get to that community to pick up that individual, and then haul them again five, six hours to a hospital. So in a case of emergency, Mr. Speaker, this would never work.

And so I don’t have an understanding as to this motion being presented. Like I don’t know how that this would work for a lot of the northern residents, and also residents throughout the province, you know. I’ve listened to a lot of stories from people, and some of them scary.

You know, I imagine my wife and I, you know, being in Meadow Lake for example. When we were having our youngest we had to go to Saskatoon and pay out of pocket to stay out there for a couple of weeks before our baby was born, our little one, because we didn’t have that even in Meadow Lake, to be able to deliver because there was some complications.

What happens to those mothers in the North if there is complications within their pregnancy? We’re going to have to, you know, get on the internet — if you’re lucky to have proper Wi-Fi — contact a doctor, and then the doctor says you need to go into emergency right now. Okay, I’ll get there in about 10 hours. I don’t think that that’s going to work for that individual or that child.

So these are things that we have to think about. And I know that not only myself, but members opposite would agree with me when it comes to these individuals, that they’re important, they matter, they belong in this province, and they need the proper care, Mr. Speaker. They need this care.

And so with, you know, having a nurse — that we don’t have in the North — to do the assessment for the doctor, how is that going to work in those communities? If we don’t even have nurses up there? So how is virtual care going to work for those individuals? Because, you know, we don’t have any nurses in the area.

And that’s why I speak of all of these communities just in the Northwest but talking about the far North, like Fond-du-Lac, Wollaston Lake, Stony Rapids, you know. You go a little further right to the end of the road, they don’t even have a road into the community. They have to take a barge across. And weather permitting — you know, you never know what you’re going to get on those roads to get out of there.

So this virtual care just doesn’t work for the northern residents. It doesn’t. And it’s our responsibility, like I said before, as representatives of the province to be able to make sure that we provide proper care for all Saskatchewan residents, and that’s including the people in northern Saskatchewan. They can’t be neglected.

You know, and thinking about the different people up there. Like I said before, I’d had my little kohkom, my little grandma, 97 years old, residential school survivor out of Ile-a-la-Crosse, and then worked in one for 30 years. Lived, worked in the North for her whole life. She had to travel in her 90s to go and see a doctor in Saskatoon or Edmonton. And she wouldn’t even understand what virtual care was. We’d put her in front of a screen, she’d think she was watching TV, Mr. Speaker.

So how would that work for a lot of the Elders that we still have up there? They’re not going to understand it. A lot of them don’t even understand English. So how does that work when we don’t even have nurses to be able to sit there to accommodate?

So it’s something that really needs to be considered and something that really needs to be talked about because we can’t forget those people up there. They’re good people in the North, really good people. We can’t stay focused on everything on this side of Meadow Lake. We have to think about those northern residents because like I said, they’re good people. They would help in a heartbeat.

I was thinking about my colleague travelling through Saskatchewan right now, eight months pregnant, having to go into northwestern Saskatchewan here over the next week. I’m a little concerned because you know, there’s going to be some . . . If she ends up going into labour, Mr. Speaker, no cell service. No cell service in some of those parts, a lot of those parts. You know, there was at one point I remember hearing that there was going to be 60 cell towers that were offered in this province. Turnor Lake’s finally getting one.

But I don’t know how or what’s going to happen. There’s obviously going to be a lot of people that will help her, but they’re not doctors nor nurses. And this is reality for a lot of northern residents, where they’d had to either deliver at the side of the road someplace. Can’t get to Meadow Lake. Even when you get to Meadow Lake you can’t have your baby there. Yeah, you know, sometimes that’s the way that it goes. So you’re going to contact a number with no cell service, no Wi-Fi, and tell the doctor, I’m going into labour; what do I do? And there’s no nurse.

Makes no sense to me, Mr. Speaker. So I’m thinking that, you know, it’s something that we really need to consider. We’ve got to think about all of the different things and the ways that this is going to benefit all Saskatchewan residents. Like I said, northern Saskatchewan is a part of this province, its diverse communities throughout. You know, we have really good folks up there that’d give their shirt off their backs to help an individual.

And so if they need the health care — proper health care, nurses and doctors — let’s work with the initiatives that the communities have been putting forward for the past 18 years to this government. They have initiatives put in place already as to ways that they could help support their communities to make sure that we have nurses up there that are willing to stay. But they need the support of this government, Mr. Speaker.

These virtual assessments just aren’t going to work when we don’t have the capacity to do so. And that’s real life. That’s real life. This is not something that we could just kind of not think about. It’s real life that we’re looking at here. These are people’s lives. We can’t just pass them over to a computer and say the doctor will see you now.

How are people that are Elders going to be able to understand that? It’s something that hasn’t been talked about in here.

So I’m hoping that, you know, this is something that’s going to be considered because we can’t neglect those good people up there. The government needs to support these people in ways with proper needs, proper assessments, with real people sitting right there. Because a lot of people that I know up there, especially our elderly, they don’t like doing stuff like that virtually. They’d rather have the person sitting right beside them to be able to have a proper conversation. They talk to their kids about it all the time. “Don’t give me a cell phone. Come to my house and come and see me.” And that’s the way we do things up there, Mr. Speaker.

So this is something that I, you know, really hope that the government considers, thinking about these individuals, thinking about these kids, thinking about these Elders, thinking about the people that took on representation the way that we did, supporting initiatives that were put forward by both PAGC [Prince Albert Grand Council], MLTC, and all of the Nations that they represent.

Because MLTC, they’re doing a heck of a job, you know, working with the communities right now. But they’re stumped. They don’t understand — and this was a conversation we had with them this morning — they don’t know how this would benefit the Nations that they cover.

Eighteen thousand people that they represent in nine Nations of their tribal council, Mr. Speaker. How is this going to benefit them? How will it work for them with no cell service, no Wi-Fi for most places? They can’t even get the service. What happens when their Wi-Fi’s out, and then you’re supposed to be going in to see the doctor? Well there’s not even any doctors up there right now. No services.

So I’m thinking that, you know, there’s a lot of things that need to be talked about. And I’m hoping, like I said, that the government really considers these and thinks about these and thinks about these individuals up there because they matter. They need the care. They need proper care. And you know, we shouldn’t be going through these struggles with a rich province like Saskatchewan. We shouldn’t be going through this, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker Goudy: — 5 o’clock. This Assembly stands adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10 a.m.

[The Assembly adjourned at 17:00.]

Published under the authority of the Hon. Todd Goudy, Speaker

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